7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

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w-u-2-o
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7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:28 am

OK, guys with the BIG radios: P2 version 1.5 has been posted for some time. Who's running it, what do you think? Stable? Throwing any Seq errors?

You can leave off anything that is obviously Thetis related.

Thanks!

Scott
Jay_N2MGA
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby Jay_N2MGA » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:52 pm

Ok, here are some observations that may offer up some data as to how/what/where/why the Seq indicator blinks. I ran some long duration Wireshark captures to observe the UDP traffic going back and forth to my 8000 and the Win 10 PC running Thetis 2.6.2 and FW 1.5. I have to preface this by saying that in my setup I only occasionally see any Seq flashes, mostly in Recv. For the majority of all the UDP packets going back and forth, including other TCP packets being generated by other programs running on the same PC with the 8000, no Seq flashes were observed for a long period of just listening to some 40m traffic.

But, after running for many many minutes I did see the Seq flash and stopped the Wireshark capture to see if I could find the culprit. Turns out, each Seq flash appears to be correlated to a TCP error as flagged by Wireshark that was generated by another program running on the same PC (email, web browser, who knows what, etc...). The TCP errors flagged were to/from external IP addresses back and forth from my PC, errors seen were of the type "Previous segment not captured" and "Duplicate to the Ack in frame xxxxx". Some other errors shown within just a few packets of time were "TCP fast retransmission" and "TCP out of order" along with more "Duplicate to the Ack in frame xxxxx", and "TCP previous segment not captured". In total there were 10 of these packets that occurred in rapid succession amidst the usual clean UDP packets of radio traffic. Afterward no other Seq flashes were observed for the time I was capturing packets and letting the radio receive as usual.

Again this may be directly related to how my network is setup along with the capabilities of my PC and may not be of any importance to this discussion but I wanted to at the very least add some insight as to a possible cause for some of the reasons the Seq indicator flashes. A good test on my setup would be to disconnect any traffic from outside of the network to see if there are any other errors thrown in Wireshark that can be correlated to the Seq flashes.

As usual, your mileage may vary....

Cheers!
jay
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w-u-2-o
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:33 pm

Thanks, Jay.

The streams from the hardware to the PC are UDP. Each packet has a sequence number. If one or more are missing then that will cause a Seq error. The numeric associated with the Seq error tells you what stream or streams are affected (there is one for each DDC, and for mic audio).

UDP is, of course, inherently lossy. So an occasional Seq error is nothing to worry about and very expected. If you have something that is hogging your NIC for any length of time then UDP is going to lose the battle.

Since you are only seeing Seq errors on network congestion this tends to support that the firmware is doing OK.

It's UDP in the other direction as well. Unfortunately the firmware does not track the same stat's nor report on them back up to the software.

73,

Scott
Jay_N2MGA
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby Jay_N2MGA » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:23 pm

Hi Scott, completely concur re; UDP packets being on the low end of priority & network congestion although albeit in reality it appears to be maybe one or a few packets involved, question for you, do you know where the Sequence number resides in the packet, i.e.; is it part of any header or is it buried in the data portion past the header information?

As an aside, I went into the network card properties to experiment with the idea of Buffering, one item changed for the nic card properties/advanced screen is labeled "Receive buffers", the idea being any oversize packet such as the ones mentioned earlier, perhaps an increase in this number may help. For giggles and grins I changed the rather low default of 256 all the way up to 2048 and I no longer see any Seq flashes even though the same types of TCP errors as captured by wireshark are still occurring. Who knows, very early in the testing but overall I think as you stated the latest firmware is performing as expected and maybe some tweaking can be done on individual setups to perhaps help if need be. Everyone's setup is different so what works for me may or may not help another setup, but it's worth exploring (and learning!).

Tnx agn for any info you can provide...

cheers!
jay
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sv1jso
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby sv1jso » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:07 pm

Hello,

Running my 7000 with firmware 1.5 and thetis 2.6.2 for 1 day. It is big improvement from powersdr mrx 3.4.9. Now my vac sound is not broken even without resampler (forced to 1). I run bandwidth to max for testing and I saw no problems. In the same computer the max viable bandwidth for powersdr was 96khz.
I see some problems with skins and numbers not centered but it is not critical. The only thing I am missing now is smooth scroll for ctun.

Thanks everyone for the software and firmware.

73
Mike
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w-u-2-o
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:29 am

Jay,

I played with NIC setting, including buffer sizes, with PowerSDR with no substantive differences being noted. Maybe I should perform the same experiment with Thetis.

The packet structure is fully documented:

https://github.com/TAPR/OpenHPSDR-Firmware/tree/master/Protocol%202/Documentation

73,

Scott
Jay_N2MGA
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby Jay_N2MGA » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:03 am

Perfect, that's exactly what I was looking for, tnx again!

jj
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liam
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby liam » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:03 pm

Hi I have been operating an Anan8k for the last five days on
mostly RX and some TX RTTY and found it stable System stayed up for
the full five days No observed glitches

Here using Win 10 PRO V1809 OS 17763 X64bit

CPU Xeon W3350 at 3 Meg

Thetis 2.6 FW 1.5


Thanks for all the hard work

Liam EI3GC
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n1gp
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby n1gp » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:43 am

Hey All,

I've been watching the incoming rpt's from the v1.5 releases on the P2 MkII & MkI.
It seems the MkII has been experiencing some crashes on a shift from rx to tx while
using PS or Diversity where the MkI hasn't. At least thats what is seen in the reports.

I've come up with an update for the MkII that has a meld of the changes for MkI and
would like to present it to be tested against v1.5 for MKII. Please give this a try:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wjluftuaomg3um/Orion_MkII_Protocol_2_v1.6_pre1.rbf?dl=0

and report back on forum.

Tnx!

-Rick / N1GP
jeffreydoran
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby jeffreydoran » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:17 am

Thetis 2.6.2 P2 1.6, 7000DLE
2 days, very stable, no pure signal problems, no TX crashes. Only saw one seq error, but it was without consequence.
Amazing work Rick, thank you.

Jeff NJ2US
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w-u-2-o
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:33 am

Also working very well here, Rick, on an 8000. Absolutely nothing negative to report.

Thanks,

Scott
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W2PA
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby W2PA » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:06 pm

Hi Rick,

Just thought I'd chime in on this latest. I'd been running 1.5 with Thetis 2.6.2 for a while - since you released 1.5. It was quite stable and PS was working consistently - the main difference from 1.4 where it was randomly quitting.

With 1.6 all seemed fine. But in an extended QSO on phone this afternoon, I started noticing Seq->43 errors. Somewhat later, the receive audio stream began to sputter. By this I mean that although the background band noise (80m) was constant and even, strong signals were noticeably broken up and discontinuous. I heard it on all SSB signals across the band. Re-starting Thetis cured the problem and it didn't recur for the remainder 30 minutes of the QSO. The Seq->43 were still there but no more audio artifacts.

I'll continue to test to see if the discontinuous audio happens again, and go back to 1.5 if so as a comparison.

73,
Chris, W2PA
73,
Chris, W2PA
jeffreydoran
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Re: 7000 and 8000 Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby jeffreydoran » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:05 pm

P2 Firmware V 1.6 Pre-release
Thetis 2.6.3 (1/20/2019) beta
Anan 7000DLE Serial Number 00019
384K Sample Rate

Since 1.6 pre-release, no SEQ errors, No crashes, no anomalies, stable Pure Signal. Smoothest operation yet...

Jeff NJ2US

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