ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:03 pm

Hello,

I got a strange phenomenon with an ANAN-8000DLE which I got a few days ago and wonder if it is just an operator error or something serious.

Here is the story:
When I used the radio the first time I noticed an "ADCx overload flag" on the 10 m band ( I don´t recall whether it was ADC1 or 2 but think it was ADC 1) and the spectrum looked very strange with obvious artefacts and a strange sound. When I set the attenuation from 0 dB to -20 dB the spectrum looked normal and some signals could be heard. I use the DL0IGI beacon on 28,205 MHz as a reference and it sounded good although a bit weak compared to my other radios. With the attenuation set to -10 dB or 0 dB the beacon disappeared in warbling noise. The even more strange thing was that the ADC overload message still was present even with the antenna disconnected.

No such effect was being observed on the other bands although I expected 40 m and 20 m the worst while there is hardly any activity on 10 m. After operating the radio for 2 days now I realized today that the ADC overload message shows up on any band now and stays even with the antenna disconnected. No matter which setting I use on the attenuator the ADC overload message stays. On 10 m I cannot hear the beacon as it is masked by noise while on the other bands like 20 m or 80 m for example I don´t have any problems to hear signals (although ADC overload is blinking there too).

By playing around with the filter settings I found that as soon as I disable the ALEX button reception on 10 m is back and the beacon is at the level that I am used to from the other radios. As soon as I activate the ALEX button the 10 m beacon disappears in the noise. On 20 m for example enabling or disabling the ALEX button doesn´t change the reception.

So in a few words - 10 m has been problematic from the beginning and became worse (no attenuation setting & ALEX enabled brings back the reception now while at the beginning attenuation helped to restore reception) while the other bands show ADC overload too but ALEX seems to have no impact on the reception.

I also made a newstart with the computer, turned off the radio etc. but the ADC overload message comes and stays as soon as I enable ALEX even with the antenna disconnected.

One more thing I want to mention is that I hooked up my amplifier this afternoon and it seems to me that the problem is somehow related to that but maybe only coincidence. No other antenna than the main antenna (ANT 1) was connected to the radio so rf pickup thru a second receive antenna was not possible.

My understanding is that with ALEX enabled overloading should be less likely due to the preselector action. However as soon as I am enabling it I am loosing reception on 10 m and getting the overload message (ADC1 on some bands, ADC2 on other bands).

The radio is working fine except for the fact that its behaviour changed within one day and that disabling the preselector (?) makes the radio work fine while with the preselector enabled I get this ADC overload flag which is the opposite of my understanding.

WU2O just recently referred to the ALEX button, preselector and RX2 - maybe that is linked to this problem too.

73 Roger, DL5RBW
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:50 pm

Check the power supply voltage going into the radio right at the power connector on the back of the radio. Is it OK?
DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:02 am

Yes the voltage is o.k. - it measures 13,9 V. After moving around the bands for a while yesterday I enabled ALEX again and again and all of a sudden the "ADC Overload" flag was gone on all bands but 10 m. Even with the attenuator set to 0 dB I could not provoke an "overload". On 10 m with attenuation set to 0 dB I hear the beacon coming in S3 (ALEX disabled) but with ALEX enabled it is completely masked by noise. 10 dB attenuation and still no signal. Only with 20 dB the beacon just becomes audible by coming out of the noise. Disabling ALEX with the 20 dB attenuator setting does not change the noisefloor or the signal to noise ratio of the beacons signal. With 0 dB attenuation and ALEX disabled the noise floor is -128 dBm (CW - 500 Hz bandwidth) and I have perfect reception of the signals on 10 m while with ALEX enabled the nosie floor jumps to -120 dBm, the ADC1 Overload flag flashes, the beacon signal disappears and I hear warbling sound. When enabling ALEX on 10 m it sounds like a preamp is switched in and increases the noise floor however it is only artificial as I can see the spur of the beacon completely disappear (with attenuation at 0 dB).

So basically the radio behaves like it did the first time I turned it on however the 10 m issue is a stable problem antenna connected or not doesn´t matter.
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:31 pm

Grasping at straws:

1. Try exporting and then resetting your database in PowerSDR. If that doesn't work, you can re-import your saved database.

2. Try re-loading your firmware.
DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:51 pm

he version shown in the ANAN display says V1.08.

I found firmware versions for the ORION MkII board here:

https://github.com/TAPR/OpenHPSDR-Firmw ... AN-8000DLE)/previous%20Orion%20MkII%20NP%20versions

However I cannot find V1.08 or any newer version if available.

Meanwhile the radio on 10 & 12 m (same bandpass) reports

Overload ADC
Overload ADC1
Overload ADC2

alternately even without antenna. All other bands including 6 m are o.k.

So I tend to believe WU2O´s suggestion that the firmware maybe corrupted as the ADCs are working fine on all other bands and the problem is limited to one bandpass path only (10 & 12 m). When activating RX2 it seems to be affected by RX1 and also shows some artefacts.

Any other suggestions before I need to go and try to restore the firmware? It would be the last thing I want to do as I really have mixed feelings about the idea to finally end up with another problem.
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:56 pm

"1.08" is the version of the firmware used in the Arduino processor that runs the LCD display. It has nothing to do with the firmware on the Orion MKII board. To know what's on the Orion, look at Setup > General > Hardware Config in PowerSDR.

See the "sticky" threads here for a lot of good info if you are unfamiliar with loading firmware:

https://apache-labs.com/community/viewforum.php?f=18
DL8LAQ
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:28 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL8LAQ » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:56 am

Check if the 6-m-preamp is enabled even if you are not on the 6-m-band! That could be a database fault too.

73, Norbert
DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:13 pm

The 6 m preamp is disabled on TX but not on RX (these are still the default values which I didn´t change)

ALEX enabled
Checking the RX box on "Disable 6 m LNA" doesn´t change anything. Same with "LNA 15/12/10M". No change in the artificial noise floor nor do I hear a relay clicking when enabling the "LNA 15/12/10M".

ALEX disabled
However as soon as I disable ALEX I hear a relay clicking (when disabling ALEX) and I hear a relay clicking (as I would expect) as soon as I enable "LNA 15/12/10M". The LNA for 15/12/10M is working fine - the noise floor drops and the beacons signal becomes much stronger.

So basically everything (I checked so far) is working o.k. except for ALEX on 12 & 10 m.

What about you other ANAN-8000DLE owners out there - does your radio behave normal on 12 & 10 m (no ADC OVERLOAD flag) if you enable ALEX on those bands?
DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:24 am

Meanwhile after discussing with some people offline it is pretty sure that it is not a firmware problem. Thats why I didn´t reload the firmware so far. Besides that it is not as easy as assumed especially as different (competent) sources describe routines that conflict one each other in some but important points.

Anyway during that discussion one problem that is related to the ADC OVERLOAD on 10 and 12 m has been found - whenever ALEX is enabled a HUGE carrier (0 dBm!) on 25 MHz (which happens to be the clock frequency of parts of the circuit) and the harmonic at 50 MHz (about -10 dBm) show up on the spectrum analyzer. This signal is coming out of the radios antenna jack and therefore also is existent at the input of the ADCs overloading them. Although 50 MHz seems to be out of the passband for this particular filter set (10 & 12 m) I am not sure whether the right filter bank is enabled or any filter enabled at all. Measuring the coil voltage on the different relays also shows confusing results with the 6 m bandpass being switched together with the 10&12 m bandpass. Using antenna port 2 or 3 gives me the same results. Using input RX2 same situation.

On the other bands I meanwhile get the ADC OVERLOAD flag pretty often too although I DON´T see any offending signal between 1 MHz and 200 MHz. I didn´t find any relation when or why it happens all of a sudden and then goes away all of a sudden. The only relation I found is that as soon as I hear the relays clicking when cycling between ALEX ON/OFF I have the ADC OVERLOAD problem. If I DON`T hear the relays clicking when cycling thru ALEX ON/OFF I DON´T have the ADC OVERLOAD problem or at least don´t get the OVERLOAD message.
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:42 am

Try reloading your firmware. Seriously.

If you get the same behavior after that then it sounds like your radio is actually broken and needs repair. Relays should click when turning the preselectors on and off. You should not be seeing giant clock spurs.
DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:10 pm

Hi Scott,

this afternoon we flashed the firmware however no change. The relay matrix control seems to be completely off track as like described before whenever ALEX is enabled the relays for the 6m path are activated too while being on 10/12 m. Where this huge 25 MHz spur is injected I don´t know. The funny thing is that now the OVERLOAD flag also pretty consistently shows up on all other bands too with ALEX being anabled. This was not the case in the past - at least not that consistent. The only relation I found so far is that whenever I enable or disable ALEX and I hear relays clicking I get that OVERLOAD flag. This is the case always on 10/12 m where I always get and got the OVERLOAD while it was not always the case on the other bands. As soon as no relay is clicking with enabling/disabling ALEX all is fine however with no relays clicking I assume the bandpass is not effective either.
DL8LAQ
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:28 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL8LAQ » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:32 pm

Th only 25 MHz source in the 8000DLE is the clock generator U8 on the Orion II board, feeding FPGA and ethernet trx with 25 MHz clock. My 7000DLE receives this clock at a level below -130dBm.

73, Norbert
DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:13 pm

DL8LAQ - what is the firmware version that you are using?
DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:51 pm

Problem solved (so far)!

the original firmware version the radio was deliviered with was ver. 2.4. After loading the latest "official" firmware Ver. 2.3 (to see whether the process of uploading was successful) I took the chance and tried enabling ALEX on 10 & 12 m. Guess what - the radio was working as expected! I uploaded version 2.4 again and immediately had the problem again. So for now I am using version 2.3 which is the latest version released in the download area anyway. At least I can pretty much exclude a hardware problem. It merely seems to be a conflict with version 2.4 which all the current ANAN 7000/8000s are shipped with.

I found another discussion about firmware version 2.4 in the "Firmware discussion/ORION Mk II" folder so it may be appropriate to move this discussion to the "Firmware" folder although it might be found easier here just in case someone else runs into the same problem too.

Anyway it would be great to hear from other ANAN-7000/8000 owners that are using PowerSDR mrx v.3.4.9 and firmware version 2.4 or in other words any ANAN 7000/8000 shipped within the last 2 or 3 months whether they experience/d the same problem.
DL8LAQ
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:28 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL8LAQ » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:04 pm

Hi Roger,

I did not know that a 2.4 does exist. I think I have got my 7000 with 2.3 installed.

Does anyone know where I can d/l the firmware 2.4? I checked apache-labs.com, K5SO (under construction), github....

73, Norbert
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:44 pm

2.4 was an effort to allow the 6M LNA to be used on 10 and 12M as well.

2.4 is not released and will not be. 2.4 has a bug in it that may cause the overload problems on some radios.

Unfortunately 2.4 was loaded onto a few radios that shipped from the factory that way. Anyone running 2.4 and experiencing problems should load 2.3.

73,

Scott
F5AFV
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:21 am

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby F5AFV » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:43 am

Hello
I bought a 8000 dle 3 weeks ago, I have the same problem,
"ADC 1 overload"
You changed the firmware 2.4 by 2.3,
What material does it need?
And the procedure to change it
have a nice day 73
Pierre F5AFV
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:11 am

Pierre--read the "sticky" posts here:

https://apache-labs.com/community/viewforum.php?f=18
F5AFV
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:21 am

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby F5AFV » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:12 pm

Bonjour
Merci c'est parfait
73 F5AFV
DL5RBW
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL5RBW » Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:46 am

I just got the info from another ham running an 8000DLE who uploaded v2.4 and he experienced the same problems. So he went back to v2.3 and all is fine. Therefore it is definitely a firmware bug. As I wrote in some earlier post when I did some measurements on the relay coils while switching thru the bands I noticed that on 10 & 12 m the 6 m bandpass (and maybe the 6 m LNA) was enabled too which obviously caused the ADC overload problem by leaking a strong 25 MHz carrier (in my case) into the RX path. It may be a different frequency with different radios as the other ham who contacted me had the problem on 15 & 17 m. Therefore it is open whether the 25 MHz in my case are linked to the clock frequency or just pure coincidence.

Hope this helps others to avoid uneccessary returns of the equipment to the service department.

73s Roger, DL5RBW
DL8LAQ
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:28 pm

Re: ANAN-8000DLE - permanent ADC overload

Postby DL8LAQ » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:50 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:2.4 was an effort to allow the 6M LNA to be used on 10 and 12M as well.

2.4 is not released and will not be. 2.4 has a bug in it that may cause the overload problems on some radios.

Unfortunately 2.4 was loaded onto a few radios that shipped from the factory that way. Anyone running 2.4 and experiencing problems should load 2.3.


Thank you Scott!

73, Norbert

Return to “PowerSDR mRX”