Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

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G0MGM
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Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:17 pm

Not used my Rx2 and ALA 1530 receiving loop for some time as I had a small furry creature decide it liked the coax feed to it. I have now replace the coax and been trying it out again.

Not sure if what im seeing is correct. Im running Protocol 1 with version 3.4.3.

Rx2 is set to ADC2

In Ant/Filters Gnd BPF2 on Tx is ticked - If im right in thinking this will ground the input on Rx2 antenna socket .

My issue is that Im seeing my tx carrier on the Rx2 window and I cant remember if this should be the case?

I dont seem to remember this being correct..

Can someone confirm that I have got the right settings?

Thanks

Rob
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:35 pm

It sounds correct, Rob. There is only so much isolation in the relay that grounds the input. I don't know what that specification is, but it's probably not all that great, maybe 60dB?

You'd have to know how much power is coming out of the loop during TX to make a judgement as to whether my 60dB value makes any sense.

What is the signal level you see in RX2 during TX?

73,

Scott
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:12 pm

Hi Scott

Well even with just 5 w this is a picture of what Im getting on CW. Is this helpful?

Rx2 pic.JPG
Rx2 pic.JPG (106.12 KiB) Viewed 366 times
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:10 pm

It would be more helpful if you would adjust the scaling on RX2 so that the average noise floor was near the bottom, and the peak of the signal was not off scale at the top, but, no, it does not look normal.

Into a dummy load I'm getting approx. 140dB of isolation on 10M with 30W out.
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:58 am

OK here is a better picture.

Rx2 b pic.JPG
Rx2 b pic.JPG (249.27 KiB) Viewed 342 times
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:06 pm

MUCH better picture, thanks Rob.

Wow :o that is bad. You say that is with 5W (37dBm) out?

I am seeing about -11dBm on RX1 which seems about right (+37 at the input to the internal PS feedback coupler, less about 44dB or so of coupler loss--nobody knows exactly what it is, the factory hasn't said, we have to infer from the readings). Remember that the displayed value is corrected for the 31dB of step attenuator attenuation so you don't have to worry about accounting for it.

I am seeing about +13dBm on RX2. Again the attenuation is factored in, what you see is what you've got at the RX2 port. Once you get above +13dBm there starts to be a risk of damage to the Orion Mk II card. The simple answer is that the relay that grounds the input is broken. Also, that's only a 24dB antenna coupling factor (37 down to 13), which is very strong coupling. How close is the transmitting antenna to the RX2 antenna?

Is this all barefoot? How is everything wired up? Asking the dumb questions, just in case it's something simple.
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby K9RX » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:15 pm

I"m actually surprised how RX2 is wired on the 8000DLE. The RX2 antenna jack is grounded where as the input to the filter bank is left floating! Ideally it should be the RX2 input on the BPF board (feeding FL2) that gets grounded on TX! This would prevent anything from getting in to RX2, just being coupled from RF inside the radio ... AND it would prevent damaging any active pre-amps external to the rig going to the ADC2 jack! Ideally the armature of the relay, RL29 on the BPF board should be flipped around connecting to the filter bank input thus letting RX2 float when that relay is grounded. Or better yet put a 200K or so resistor across RX2 input (J6 center pin) so that it isn't floating and instead has some impedance there (similar to what Yaesu does on their RX ant input).

I'm considering re-wiring mine to accomplish this - hopefully that doesn't impact the warranty. I'm also going to remove the short to ground on ANT3 SO239 connector so that i can run my RX antenna to both ADC2 as well as ANT3 ... this way I can do SD when I choose to or i can just use a single RX (preferred) and switch back and forth between TX antenna and RX antenna for receiving ... of course setting the "Do Not TX" for ANT3.

Gary
K9RX

[as I commented on the Yahoo group indeed as configured it WILL damage an external premap. I know - its happened to me using a Hi-Z 2N3866 preamp]
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:19 pm

Hi Scott

Im beginning to think that the relay is not working or is broken as I certainly dont remember seeing signal like that when I had the 100D. Unfortunately my garden isnt very big but the ALA 1530 loop is about 30ft from the HF6V that I was using in the picture. This is the minimum distance recommended by the loop manufacturer. This last picture was running barefoot, so 200w out of the 8000.

The loop has a bias-tee to power the amp at the loop and that is connected to the Rx2 port, the vertical is connected to my KAT500 ATU, which is then connected to ANT1 on the Anan.

Rob


w-u-2-o wrote:MUCH better picture, thanks Rob.

Wow :o that is bad. You say that is with 5W (37dBm) out?

I am seeing about -11dBm on RX1 which seems about right (+37 at the input to the internal PS feedback coupler, less about 44dB or so of coupler loss--nobody knows exactly what it is, the factory hasn't said, we have to infer from the readings). Remember that the displayed value is corrected for the 31dB of step attenuator attenuation so you don't have to worry about accounting for it.

I am seeing about +13dBm on RX2. Again the attenuation is factored in, what you see is what you've got at the RX2 port. Once you get above +13dBm there starts to be a risk of damage to the Orion Mk II card. The simple answer is that the relay that grounds the input is broken. Also, that's only a 24dB antenna coupling factor (37 down to 13), which is very strong coupling. How close is the transmitting antenna to the RX2 antenna?

Is this all barefoot? How is everything wired up? Asking the dumb questions, just in case it's something simple.
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:26 pm

OK I thought I would try to disconnect the loop from Rx2 and see what happened.. this is the picture with Rx2 disconnected. Power is 200w.


Rx2 c pic.JPG
Rx2 c pic.JPG (174.3 KiB) Viewed 298 times


w-u-2-o wrote:MUCH better picture, thanks Rob.

Wow :o that is bad. You say that is with 5W (37dBm) out?

I am seeing about -11dBm on RX1 which seems about right (+37 at the input to the internal PS feedback coupler, less about 44dB or so of coupler loss--nobody knows exactly what it is, the factory hasn't said, we have to infer from the readings). Remember that the displayed value is corrected for the 31dB of step attenuator attenuation so you don't have to worry about accounting for it.

I am seeing about +13dBm on RX2. Again the attenuation is factored in, what you see is what you've got at the RX2 port. Once you get above +13dBm there starts to be a risk of damage to the Orion Mk II card. The simple answer is that the relay that grounds the input is broken. Also, that's only a 24dB antenna coupling factor (37 down to 13), which is very strong coupling. How close is the transmitting antenna to the RX2 antenna?

Is this all barefoot? How is everything wired up? Asking the dumb questions, just in case it's something simple.
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby a61ek » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:35 am

Hi Bob,

Any update on your case. Am getting same issue as yours....

Will
such as the DX Engineering Receiver Guard, should solve this issue??
Omar
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:19 pm

G0MGM wrote:OK I thought I would try to disconnect the loop from Rx2 and see what happened.. this is the picture with Rx2 disconnected. Power is 200w.

That still looks like way too much power being reported on RX2 for the input to be properly grounded. Have you contacted Apache?
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:07 pm

Yes I sent Apache an email and had Doug W5WC come back to me to check some things. I checked the relay was grounding my placing the Anan into Stby from the front panel switch and then reduced the output power to 0w and using a Multimeter I confirmed the relay was grounding, and it was.

His suggestion was to get something like the Dx Labs Receiver Guard

https://www.dxengineering.com/search/pr ... =Ascending

or make one.

Other than get one of those and seeing as the relay is grounding, not sure what else to check.

Rob
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:27 pm

That's not making a lot of sense, Rob. You should not be seeing a -50 signal coming into RX at 200W when you have no antenna attached.

How far away is your transmit antenna, and what kind of antenna is it?
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:30 pm

Hi Scott

I took a couple of more measurements this time with a terminator on the Rx2 port. The Rx loop is about 12m away from the vertical that I was transmitting on. From these I see -61 to -64 db signal into Rx2.

Rx2 80m with term.JPG
Rx2 80m with term.JPG (186.35 KiB) Viewed 117 times


Rx2 40m with term.JPG
Rx2 40m with term.JPG (186.35 KiB) Viewed 117 times
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:47 pm

Just to double check, are there any settings I may have missed to make sure that Rx2 is grounded on Tx?

Rob

w-u-2-o wrote:That's not making a lot of sense, Rob. You should not be seeing a -50 signal coming into RX at 200W when you have no antenna attached.

How far away is your transmit antenna, and what kind of antenna is it?
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:22 pm

Setup > General > Ant/Filters > Antenna: "Gnd BPF2 on Tx"
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Re: Rx2 on Anan8000 DLE

Postby G0MGM » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:28 pm

Thanks, thats what I have ticked all the time.

w-u-2-o wrote:Setup > General > Ant/Filters > Antenna: "Gnd BPF2 on Tx"

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