Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

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w9ac
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Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Thu May 02, 2019 1:34 am

I'm looking to replace a Behringer UMC2020HD audio interface with a Presonus Studio 192 Mobile unit. Since acquiring a Presonus StudioLive 16R digital rack mixer, I really like the Presonus build quality. For those of you using this device with either PSDR or Thetis VAC, have the Presonus drivers been stable with Windows? Any other issues that would make me reconsider?

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu May 02, 2019 3:34 am

Paul,

As you might know, I have the Studio 192 Mobile. The drivers have been very stable, and the USB 3.0 interface provides extremely low latency. I can run the unit at its lowest buffer setting and 96KHz on my i7-7700k based system.

The only downside to the unit is the rather complex mixer interface that is part of the driver ensemble. However, for someone who has a StudioLive 16R and is therefore assumed to be intimately familiar with complex audio mixing systems, this should pose little difficulty ;)

I use Behringer B1 and AKG WMS420 microphones for input, and JBL LSR305 monitors for output. Both TX and RX audio is fabulous!

Check my QRZ website for photos.

73,

Scott
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby Bryan W4WMT » Thu May 02, 2019 4:29 am

Paul,

Arguably the best feature of the Studio 192 is the Wordclock reference input. Clock your radio and the Presonus from a common GPSDO and then you no longer need a variable resampler.

73, Bryan W4WMT
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Thu May 02, 2019 10:47 am

Interesting, I looked through the on-line manual but didn't see the format for the clock input. Is it PPS, 10 MHz, or...?

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby Bryan W4WMT » Fri May 03, 2019 2:10 am

Hi Paul,

I believe the spec for Wordclock is just a TTL square wave at whichever sample rate you’re running (48k, 96k, etc).

73, Bryan W4WMT
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri May 03, 2019 10:38 am

That's correct. It is a 5V unipolar square wave. The standard impedance of a word clock input is 75 ohms.
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Fri May 10, 2019 1:23 pm

The Presonus 192 Mobile audio interface arrived and is now working well with my StudioLive 16R mixer under Presonus' Universal Control software.

I've read through the owner's manual but I'm still at a loss concerning how Word Clock can be used with my ANAN 7000DLE and 192 Mobile. Specifically, what hardware and cable routing is required? It's seems a single clock-source generator must be used but to use a GPSDO, perhaps another interface is required?

Google hasn't been my friend: I've looked on-line but don't see any helpful information.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri May 10, 2019 2:22 pm

I'm pretty sure Bryan uses one of these:

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=107&products_id=234

with one output set to 10MHz for the radio hardware, and the other output set to 48KHz for his audio hardware.

73,

Scott
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Sat May 11, 2019 12:11 am

Scott,

Now it all makes sense. I didn't realize the Bodnar unit had two independent outputs.

Thanks for the info.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Thu May 16, 2019 3:15 am

Received the Bodar dual GPSDO this afternoon. Setup is mostly easy but programming the frequency of the second output requires a trick that's not obvious from the installation instructions.

For example, programming 10 MHz and 96 kHz simultaneous outputs isn't initially possible as the programming software (v 9.11) doesn't provide an output option for these settings. For those with a similar unit, the way to set Output 1 to 10 MHz and Output to 2 to 96 kHz is as follows:

Enter 10 MHz in the Output 1 menu window and press "Find."
Change the entry in NC2_LS from the 10 MHz setting (48 by default) to 5000 and press "Update." The output frequencies will now be 10 MHz and 96 kHz. However, at this point the unit will update to the new setting, but the software will not show the correct Output 2 frequency. To remedy, close the software and re-start. The Output 2 window will now show the correct frequency of 96 kHz.

To change Output 2 to 48 kHz, set NC2_LS to 10000.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu May 16, 2019 10:46 am

Is it working well, Paul? Does the resampler Var ratio stay at 1.0?
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Thu May 16, 2019 2:08 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:Is it working well, Paul? Does the resampler Var ratio stay at 1.0?

Well. I still have to make a new BNC jumper for the second output. I'll try it this weekend and report back.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Thu May 16, 2019 9:18 pm

Well, after switching between audio drivers, I now get the error message below. I tried rebooting both the PC and ANAN 7000. No luck. I then removed Thetis from Win10 and tried to re-stall. Still get the fatal audio error message at start-up and Thetis won't load. So, how to clear this fatal error at start-up?

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu May 16, 2019 10:04 pm

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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Thu May 16, 2019 11:54 pm

Scott,

That fixed it. Thanks for the link.

To answer your question, Var Ratio stays at exacty 1.0 when i use the Windows WDM driver. However, then using ASIO and the the Studio 192 inputs and outputs, Var Ratio hugs very near 1.0 but bounces around a bit at 5th and 6th decimal places.

The Bodnar GPSDO is set for 10 MHz and 48 kHz.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby Bryan W4WMT » Fri May 17, 2019 10:09 am

Hi Paul,

I am interested in seeing what kind of VAC1 settings you are now able to get away with using the new Presonus. Care to post a screen shot?

73, Bryan W4WMT
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Fri May 17, 2019 10:44 am

Bryan, attached below. I am not convinced the Var Ratio should be 1.0 when using a common clock in this case. Because of the large frequency disparity between 10 MHz and 48 kHz, coaxial cable length will affect pulse timing between the two outputs. However, that timing error should remain constant from a common source.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby Bryan W4WMT » Fri May 17, 2019 1:15 pm

Hi Paul,

It’s perfectly normal for the Var Ratio to “hunt” around a bit when referencing your radio and sound device from a common clock. Mine sure does.

Even if you check the Force box, which stops the matching loop from steering the variable resampler, the matching loop is still trying to measure the ratio of the two clock domains, and is being perturbed by the staggering, drunken Windows thread scheduler.

The next step for you would be to check the Force boxes and prove to yourself that the radio and the Presonus are indeed synced (evidenced by the over/underflow counters staying at zero indefinitely).

73, Bryan W4WMT
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Fri May 17, 2019 1:34 pm

Bryan W4WMT wrote:The next step for you would be to check the Force boxes and prove to yourself that the radio and the Presonus are indeed synced (evidenced by the over/underflow counters staying at zero indefinitely).

73, Bryan W4WMT

Yes, I can confirm that counters remain at zero when "force" is checked or unchecked.

I note that the Studio 192 Block Size remains at 2048 even if I select a lower Buffer Size in Thetis.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby Bryan W4WMT » Fri May 17, 2019 2:13 pm

Paul,

That’s too bad about the Studio 192 block size not following changes in VAC1 buffer size. PortAudio tries to take care of that for you, but it’s up to the Presonus ASIO driver to comply (or not).

It’s important to make sure the VAC1 buffer size and the ASIO block size are in agreement, otherwise PortAudio has to adapt between the two, typically by introducing another layer of buffering (which nobody wants),

Maybe there’s a setting in the Presonus’ ASIO control panel that enables it to accept block size changes from the host application? Failing that, can you manually set the block size in the ASIO control panel?

73, Bryan W4WMT
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Fri May 17, 2019 4:01 pm

Bryan W4WMT wrote:Maybe there’s a setting in the Presonus’ ASIO control panel that enables it to accept block size changes from the host application? Failing that, can you manually set the block size in the ASIO control panel?

73, Bryan W4WMT

Unfortunately, no. The Presonus control panel has no manual override. There's a pull-down menu for buffer size, but with the Presonus ASIO driver, it keeps switching to 2048 as soon as VAC is enabled in Thetis. So, a handshake is occurring, but it's not allowing for any other buffer size. The Presonus ASIO driver has no option either -- at least when Iooking at it in Windows Control Panel.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby Bryan W4WMT » Fri May 17, 2019 6:43 pm

Paul,

PortAudio may be requesting a larger ASIO block size because you have your latency settings configured for automatic. Try checking all four Manual checkboxes and setting all four spinners to zero. See if that allows ASIO to operate at smaller block sizes when VAC1 buffer size is set accordingly.

73, Bryan W4WMT
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Fri May 17, 2019 7:08 pm

Bryan,

That works and now the Buffer Size moves lock-step between the Studio 192 and Thetis. However, I tried setting all four wheels to zero but got Over/Under counter overflows.

Next, I left Port Audio at zero, but put the Ring Buffer on Auto (i.e., boxes unchecked). See below. Var Ratio stays VERY close to 1.0 and is unaffected when the "Force" check boxes are selected.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri May 17, 2019 9:26 pm

Paul,

You are on the right track! As Bryan has explained before, the Portaudio settings are meaningless for ASIO and should be set to zero when using ASIO. The next and last order of business is to see how small you can get the buffer latency settings. I have mine set to In 5 and Out 3.

Also, I was able to get my VAC buffer down to 128, and I manually set the Presonus driver to 128.

73!

Scott
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Fri May 17, 2019 10:53 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:Paul,

You are on the right track! As Bryan has explained before, the Portaudio settings are meaningless for ASIO and should be set to zero when using ASIO. The next and last order of business is to see how small you can get the buffer latency settings. I have mine set to In 5 and Out 3.

Also, I was able to get my VAC buffer down to 128, and I manually set the Presonus driver to 128.

73!

Scott

Scott,

I have the Buffer Size down to 128 and it's automatically handshaking with the Studio 192. Looks like my Buffer Latency limit is 10/10 ms. before overflows occur. I should probably be happy with the result.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby Bryan W4WMT » Sat May 18, 2019 11:17 am

Hi Paul,

Since your radio and sound device are now both referenced to the same GPSDO, there’s no longer any danger of the VAC1 ringbuffers overflowing/underflowing due to clock domain mismatch. So you should try forcing the variable resamplers to 1, which stops the matching loop from constantly tweaking the resamp. Works nice here, but YMMV.

On a well pacified PC your ”Ringbuffer” latency settings should be able to run lower than 10ms. But now we’re splitting hairs :-)

73, Bryan W4WMT
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Sat May 18, 2019 12:52 pm

Bryan W4WMT wrote:Hi Paul,
On a well pacified PC your ”Ringbuffer” latency settings should be able to run lower than 10ms. But now we’re splitting hairs :-)

73, Bryan W4WMT

Bryan,

10/10 ms on RingBuffer is as low as I can go without overflow error. Any other tweaks possible?

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby Bryan W4WMT » Sat May 18, 2019 1:05 pm

Paul,

Not if you have already tried force = 1 on the resampler controls.
I assume you did, so that’s about it.

73, Bryan W4WMT
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Sat May 18, 2019 1:34 pm

Bryan W4WMT wrote:Paul,

Not if you have already tried force = 1 on the resampler controls.
I assume you did, so that’s about it.

73, Bryan W4WMT

Better with Force engaged with 1/1 selected but I still see a few over/under flows long term. Not sure how serious that is.

Paul, W9AC
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Re: Presonus Studio 192 Mobile

Postby w9ac » Sun May 19, 2019 12:46 pm

Been operating CW this morning while listening direct from the Studio 192. Latency is so low that I can send CW without any ear-to-hand timing errors. As soon as the key's contacts close, the side tone is right there. Quite amazing.

This was simply a test; I normally monitor from a Presonus StudioLive 16R digital mixer, with an active input from the 7000DLE's front panel headphone jack.

Paul, W9AC

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