200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

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w-u-2-o
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200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:06 pm

All,

Getting a lot of random chatter on the P2 Orion build and Thetis. Would like to confirm or deny some trends.

Reports have included:

- Poor VAC audio quality: we need to understand if this is a real problem or just people having trouble setting up VAC and the resampler in Thetis
- No panafall display: this seems unlikely. For those who might have this problem, are the panadapter and waterfall displays working by themselves? If they are it's got to be a database problem.
- Left and right audio channels reversed on the headphone output: if confirmed this is probably a firmware problem.

When confirming that you have a problem please do this with a reset database and at 192KHz sample rate. Export your old database, you can always import it again. With the higher sample rates, such as 768 and 1536KHz, some folks PCs might not be up to the challenge. Let's peel this onion starting at the lower sample rates, please.

Thanks & 73,

Scott/w-u-2-o
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby G3ZQH » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:32 pm

Hi Scott

My observations so far:

1. The v1.3/Thetis 2.6.0 combination has been erratic with occasional unexplained crashes and a problem with VAC (see below). But when it is working everything has been stable for long periods (hours).
2. PureSignal works in single CAL or SSB modes- fast response with excellent linearisation. Checked at 192 and 384 kHz sampling rates, but not higher. All bands checked apart from 6m.
3. I had a big problem with VAC, causing multiple crashes. Resetting the database did not solve it, but re-installing Thetis worked. Possibly a corruption of the database? In VAC 1 I have found that unticking the buffer latency checkboxes (Ring Buffer and Port Audio) has given me stable VAC results.
4. Audio L/R are reversed, but this is easily corrected by using 'Swap'.
5. There is a 'ghost' bandwidth area that appears in the panadapter, exactly the same as the normal bandwidth image, but in a different place. It seems to move with the mouse operation.
6. I see 'Seq=>8' (in normal use) and 'Seq=>10' (when using PS-A) in red in the information bar below the waterfall
7. The frequency scale at the top and bottom of the panadapter are not lined up- there is an offset of about 500Hz
8. RX2 works but shows either 'Seq=>20 ' or and 'Seq=>24.
9. TX waterfall display (DUP) looks like it was in older versions of PSDRmrx- not to scale and looks bad.
10. After recycle of rig power PTT is immediately enabled on switching power back ON- not good as this could trigger linear etc. When Thetis is started the PTT drops.

That's all for now. I'll report any further observations.

73 Dave G3ZQH
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby W1AEX » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:57 am

Scott,

I have used P2 firmware v1.3 and Thetis v2.60 with my 200D for casual operation on the 160 and 75 meter bands and it has been stable there. The Pure Signal protocol does not work well on 40 meters (AmpView displays a very confused looking graph) and on 20 meters and above it does not work at all. I have not noticed any issues with the VAC resampler and once I set things up for stable results the audio quality has been excellent. I've only played around with it for a few hours so I don't have much more to report at this time.

73,

Rob W1AEX
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:10 am

G3ZQH wrote:Hi Scott

4. Audio L/R are reversed, but this is easily corrected by using 'Swap'.

Will look into this.

5. There is a 'ghost' bandwidth area that appears in the panadapter, exactly the same as the normal bandwidth image, but in a different place. It seems to move with the mouse operation.

Can you post a screen shot, please? Not seeing this problem.

7. The frequency scale at the top and bottom of the panadapter are not lined up- there is an offset of about 500Hz

Can you post a screen shot, please? Be sure to show the entire window. Not seeing this problem.

9. TX waterfall display (DUP) looks like it was in older versions of PSDRmrx- not to scale and looks bad.

Yes, that code has not made it into Thetis, yet.

10. After recycle of rig power PTT is immediately enabled on switching power back ON- not good as this could trigger linear etc. When Thetis is started the PTT drops.

Will look into this further.

Thanks!
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby NL7F » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:21 am

Running 200D rev 24/Orion NP v1.3/Thetis v2.6.0 RF spectrum now stable, Predistortation now working. Remaining problems:
at 1536000 sample rate the audio "chatters". Predistortion appears slow to respond. When transmitting SSB Rx2 spectrum shows opposite SB.
L and R audio channels are swapped using front panel headset output. No Panafall is available. Some of these problems belong to NP and some
belong to Thetis.

Followup: After reverting to Thetis v2.3.11 and v2.5.3 and reinstalls of Orion NP v1.3 and back to Thetis v2.6.0, it is now running ok with exception of L/R audio reversal and audio "chatter" at 1536000 sample rate.. Predistortion now OK. SSB issues fixed. Still missing Panafall display.

Followup 2:: Operating Rx2 on and vfo sync. Get everything working on one band (40m), when I change bands Rx2 looks like it follows but the spectrum display goes flat and Rx2 is dead. So it's back to PowerSDR 3.4.9 and Orion 5.0.

Panafall does not appear as a choice for either Rx1 or Rx2 even after a database reset. Panadapter and waterfall displays operate normally.
L/R audio reversal goes back to Thetis v2.3.11, NP 1.3.

Followup 3: I have discovered that Panafall is available only if Rx2 is off. If Rx2 is off and Panafall is running then turning Rx2 on causes Panafall
to revert to Panadapter. In PowerSDR 3.4.9 Panafall is always available in Rx1 and/or Rx2.
Last edited by NL7F on Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby A92GE » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:22 am

As with all other versions of this protocol I can load the firmware but the radio is not recognised upon reboot. The radio is connected directly to the network port using a high quality cable but will not connect. The network adapter in Windows shows as disconnected. Have tried setting the network in both Auto Negotiation and 1GB only settings but no difference. Reverting back to protocol 1 using bootloader and everything is fine.

73

David
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:24 am

David--it sounds like you are using APIPA addressing. Have you tried static addressing?
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby DL8LAQ » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:26 am

G3ZQH wrote:Hi Scott
5. There is a 'ghost' bandwidth area that appears in the panadapter, exactly the same as the normal bandwidth image, but in a different place. It seems to move with the mouse operation.

Check if "Show CT Filter" is ticked on the options tab.

G3ZQH wrote:7. The frequency scale at the top and bottom of the panadapter are not lined up- there is an offset of about 500Hz

The top frequency scale shows the receiver carrier frequency, while the bottom one shows the transmitter carrier frequency. In SSB both frequencies are identical, but in CW the transmitter carrier is shifted up by eg. 600 Hz (see Pitch Freq, just below the APF and CW Break-In boxes on the main window).

G3ZQH wrote:10. After recycle of rig power PTT is immediately enabled on switching power back ON- not good as this could trigger linear etc. When Thetis is started the PTT drops.

Do u use a mono plug for the mic? The standard hardware options in the firmware is mic to tip, bias off and ptt on. That means ptt is connected to the ring of a TRS plug. If you use a mono plug (TS?) the ptt is activated once the Anan is powered and this also enables the bias supply to the Anan PA...
I use a Heil headset which is supplied with a mono plug and I complaint about that behaviour of the Orion / Orion MKII firmware. The default settings was changed to ptt off. A few month ago I changed the mono plug to a stereo (TRS) plug, because in one of the updated f/w versions the ptt was set to ON by default again :-)
[/quote]

73, Norbert
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby G3ZQH » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:54 pm

Hi Scott
I attach
Thetis ghost and frequency scale misalignment.PNG
Thetis ghost and frequency scale misalignment.PNG (322.06 KiB) Viewed 4288 times
a screen shot which shows the the 'ghost' image to the left of the main bandwidth area. It appears when the mouse is moved away from the main display window. The same screen shot shows the frequency scale misalignment.
73 Dave G3ZQH

w-u-2-o wrote:
G3ZQH wrote:Hi Scott

4. Audio L/R are reversed, but this is easily corrected by using 'Swap'.

Will look into this.

5. There is a 'ghost' bandwidth area that appears in the panadapter, exactly the same as the normal bandwidth image, but in a different place. It seems to move with the mouse operation.

Can you post a screen shot, please? Not seeing this problem.

7. The frequency scale at the top and bottom of the panadapter are not lined up- there is an offset of about 500Hz

Can you post a screen shot, please? Be sure to show the entire window. Not seeing this problem.

9. TX waterfall display (DUP) looks like it was in older versions of PSDRmrx- not to scale and looks bad.

Yes, that code has not made it into Thetis, yet.

10. After recycle of rig power PTT is immediately enabled on switching power back ON- not good as this could trigger linear etc. When Thetis is started the PTT drops.

Will look into this further.

Thanks!
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby G3ZQH » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:08 pm

Hi Norbert
Thanks, your comments were helpful. The ghost has now disappeared ! It was the Show CT Filter as you suggested. Some setting I must have transferred incorrectly from PSRDmrx.

The frequency scale problem is still there whichever mode I select. However, if I know the top scale is for RX then that does help.

I do use a mono plug for my mic (also Heil headset), so that explains the problem. For now, I can simply leave the mic unplugged until I need it. I'll wait on further updates for this problem, but I guess it might also be solved by screening off part of the mic plug barrel.

73 Dave G3ZQH

DL8LAQ wrote:
G3ZQH wrote:Hi Scott
5. There is a 'ghost' bandwidth area that appears in the panadapter, exactly the same as the normal bandwidth image, but in a different place. It seems to move with the mouse operation.

Check if "Show CT Filter" is ticked on the options tab.

G3ZQH wrote:7. The frequency scale at the top and bottom of the panadapter are not lined up- there is an offset of about 500Hz

The top frequency scale shows the receiver carrier frequency, while the bottom one shows the transmitter carrier frequency. In SSB both frequencies are identical, but in CW the transmitter carrier is shifted up by eg. 600 Hz (see Pitch Freq, just below the APF and CW Break-In boxes on the main window).

G3ZQH wrote:10. After recycle of rig power PTT is immediately enabled on switching power back ON- not good as this could trigger linear etc. When Thetis is started the PTT drops.

Do u use a mono plug for the mic? The standard hardware options in the firmware is mic to tip, bias off and ptt on. That means ptt is connected to the ring of a TRS plug. If you use a mono plug (TS?) the ptt is activated once the Anan is powered and this also enables the bias supply to the Anan PA...
I use a Heil headset which is supplied with a mono plug and I complaint about that behaviour of the Orion / Orion MKII firmware. The default settings was changed to ptt off. A few month ago I changed the mono plug to a stereo (TRS) plug, because in one of the updated f/w versions the ptt was set to ON by default again :-)


73, Norbert[/quote]
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby FM5GB » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:23 pm

Hi Scott, Hi all,

I flashed P2 1.3 and installed Thetis v2.6.0.0. unfortunately my testing could'nt last long because a crash occured some 10 minutes after launch.
After a database reset it behaved similarly some minutes after start. So I could not do any valuable testing. On my setup (200D win7 64 pro) P2-Thetis remains very unstable.

Anyway thank you for your efforts. I will try any new version of both P2 & Thetis as they will be released, although I'm professionally too busy to help a lot.


Best regards & 73s Phil, FM5GB.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby DL8LAQ » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:58 pm

Hi Dave,

G3ZQH wrote:The frequency scale problem is still there whichever mode I select. However, if I know the top scale is for RX then that does help.

that is interesting. Please save your database first, then reset the database and restart Thetis, don't change any setting and check if the bottom frequency scale behaves different now.

In the latest PowerSDR version the bottom frequency scale is tied to the top scale, no frequency shift in any mode.

G3ZQH wrote:I do use a mono plug for my mic (also Heil headset), so that explains the problem. For now, I can simply leave the mic unplugged until I need it. I'll wait on further updates for this problem, but I guess it might also be solved by screening off part of the mic plug barrel.

It's a better choice to use a TRS plug but I think the default setting is not foolproof and should be changed again.

73, Norbert
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:15 pm

Listen to Norbert! Use a TRS plug!
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby G3ZQH » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:09 pm

Hi Norbert
Thanks again- another problem solved. Very helpful! See below for my comments
73 Dave G3ZQH


G3ZQH wrote:The frequency scale problem is still there whichever mode I select. However, if I know the top scale is for RX then that does help.

that is interesting. Please save your database first, then reset the database and restart Thetis, don't change any setting and check if the bottom frequency scale behaves different now.

In the latest PowerSDR version the bottom frequency scale is tied to the top scale, no frequency shift in any mode.
[/i]

Resetting the database cured the alignment problem. Now it behaves as expected in CWU, CWL, LSB, USB and DIGL, DIGU. I'll monitor to see if this problem returns. Now I just need to re-enter all my settings...

G3ZQH wrote:I do use a mono plug for my mic (also Heil headset), so that explains the problem. For now, I can simply leave the mic unplugged until I need it. I'll wait on further updates for this problem, but I guess it might also be solved by screening off part of the mic plug barrel.

It's a better choice to use a TRS plug but I think the default setting is not foolproof and should be changed again.


TRS plug is good but I don't want to remove the moulded plug since in my experience it is only a matter of time before soldered plugs become faulty, particularly with the very fine wiring on my mic lead.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:28 pm

Make a mono to stereo adapter cable and plug your headset into that.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby DL8LAQ » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:12 pm

Hi Dave,

G3ZQH wrote:Hi Norbert
Thanks again- another problem solved. Very helpful! See below for my comments

good to hear that.
G3ZQH wrote:TRS plug is good but I don't want to remove the moulded plug since in my experience it is only a matter of time before soldered plugs become faulty, particularly with the very fine wiring on my mic lead.

Then you should follow Scott's note. The best way to solve this.

73, Norbert :-)
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby W1JA » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:50 pm

TL;DR? Read the highlighted bits.

First let me review the behaviors I found previously, with NP v1.2 (Orion_NP_v1.2_restored_4-14_h40.rbf) and Thetis 2.6.0, which I had been using with my 200D for about 8 months. With this combo I had only two issues. (1) Many of the late improvements to PowerSDR had not been ported over and (2) Thetis crashed intermittently, always on a transmit-to-receive transition. During 80m ragchews I operate in a vox-like manner, releasing PTT between each sentence, phrase or sometimes even word. Typically I would get the crash once in two hours of operating. Sometimes twice, sometimes not at all. In other words, not easily repeatable, but really annoying. Because of this, I didn't do much CW operating, and no contesting, with my 200D.

I observed no sequence errors, and the mirrored LEDs in Setup>General>F/W Set were always dark.

Pure Signal worked reliably, every time, on every band, barefoot and with my amplifier. I use the Xtronic XDC-1 sampler. Almost all my testing and operating has been at a sample rate of 384k. In very brief tests at the other sample rates, I saw no problems.

Now about the new firmware. All my testing continued at a 384k sample rate.
Yesterday I installed firmware v1.3. I also upgraded Thetis to 2.6.2. Now, I'm getting sequence errors. Seq 8 continuously on receive, Seq 10 continuously on transmit. Occasionally, around T/R transitions, I have seen Seq 2, 22, and 24. Other than being printed below the waterfall, I don't observe any effects from the errors. No mirrored LEDs are lit.

CW generation: The leading edge of the initial CW element at the start of a transmission is sometimes abrupt; it doesn't get its normal rising envelope shaping. This causes a severe key click at this instant, with a cw bandwidth extending many tens of kHz at only about 20-30 dB down (as measured on an external receiver). This occurs about 25% of the time, I estimate. It sounds so bad that it might even be hot switching relays inside the 200D. I tried increasing CW Delay, Key Down (Setup>General> Options). As I increased it from the 20ms default, the anomaly occurred less often. At 40ms, I could still get it to occur, about, guessing again, 5% of the time.

Also, I can't say for sure that this key-ckick issue wasn't present to some degree in P2 v1.2/Thetis 2.6.0. I can only say that I didn't notice it; I noticed it right away with v1.3/2.6.2.

I also have not had a single instance of a Thetis crash on a tx-to-rx transition, like I had all too often on v1.2/Thetis 2.6.0. This is after a great deal of cw testing, and a marathon 3-hour 80m phone ragchewing session this morning. I will tentatively say that this issue is no longer present.

Pure Signal works without any issue, as before.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:59 pm

Excellent feedback, everyone, please keep it coming.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby n1gp » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:20 pm

I made some timing changes to hopefully address the Seq=> errors as well as the sporadic CW key click.

There were no changes to anything that I could find that would affect CW between v1.2 & v1.3 so I'm
hoping this is also timing related.

Although I wasn't able to reproduce the key click I was seeing Seq=> errors w/ v1.3
I'm not seeing any them anymore with the v1.3 TEST image below.

I'm curious to see if this improves for others:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkru6rn7v70szyx/Orion_NP_v1.3_TEST1.rbf?dl=0

-Rick / N1GP
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby DL8LAQ » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:26 pm

W1JA wrote:I also upgraded Thetis to 2.6.2.

How did you do that? I cannot find the new files...

73, Norbert
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby W1JA » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:09 pm

Norbert, here is the link
https://github.com/w5wc/Thetis/releases

Download the .msi setup file.

73, John W1JA
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby DL8LAQ » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:47 pm

W1JA wrote:Norbert, here is the link
https://github.com/w5wc/Thetis/releases

Download the .msi setup file.


Thank you, John! I did not see the tiny link to the releases. I just followed the BIG link to the official releases :-)

73, Norbert
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:58 pm

Anything people cheat ahead with out of the W5WC repo is not an official release. Not saying you shouldn't do it, just that it's not even beta when you do that, just sayin' ;)
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby G3ZQH » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:04 pm

Hi Rick
Thanks for posting the test update. I have tested your v1.3 TEST on my 200D and it has eliminated the Seq=>8 , Seq=>10 errors as well as the other Seq errors that were shown when RX2 was used. I checked PS on several bands and this worked well with no errors shown. The VAC problem with over/underflows I solved by UNchecking all the VAC boxes- this has given me stable VAC for a couple of days with no problems. CW seems fine for me- monitoring in DUP I do not see anything unusual.

So, looking good so far.

73 Dave G3ZQH

n1gp wrote:I made some timing changes to hopefully address the Seq=> errors as well as the sporadic CW key click.

There were no changes to anything that I could find that would affect CW between v1.2 & v1.3 so I'm
hoping this is also timing related.

Although I wasn't able to reproduce the key click I was seeing Seq=> errors w/ v1.3
I'm not seeing any them anymore with the v1.3 TEST image below.

I'm curious to see if this improves for others:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkru6rn7v70szyx/Orion_NP_v1.3_TEST1.rbf?dl=0

-Rick / N1GP
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby W1AEX » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:35 pm

Rick,

Thank you for posting the 1.3 TEST version of the firmware. This is the first protocol 2 firmware version for me where Pure Signal works perfectly from 160 through 6 meters with my 200D! I have to admit that after testing it on all bands into the dummy load that I have not yet made any contacts but I certainly will after my football team finishes playing tonight!

This definitely makes Thetis a viable piece of software for my uses! Thanks very much!

73,

Rob W1AEX

200D
FW/Orion_NP_v1.3_TEST1.rbf
Thetis v2.6.2
Last edited by W1AEX on Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby NL7F » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:15 am

Using
200D
FW/Orion_NP_v1.3_TEST1.rbf
Thetis v2.6.2
Great improvement. Now slight audio "chatter" and seg>57 only with sample rate = 1536000. No issues with lower sample rates.
Audio L/R still swapped compared to PowerSDR 3.4.9.
Rx2 shows only very low background noise, no data.
Still no Panafall with Rx2 turned on.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:54 am

NL7F wrote:Now slight audio "chatter" and seg>57 only with sample rate = 1536000. No issues with lower sample rates.
That's most likely a limitation of your PC.
Audio L/R still swapped compared to PowerSDR 3.4.9.
This is not a Thetis problem, Rick will have to look at the firmware. Rob, are you seeing this problem?
Rx2 shows only very low background noise, no data.
Rob, are you seeing this problem?
Still no Panafall with Rx2 turned on.
That's because this function is not ported to Thetis yet.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby W1AEX » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:14 pm

Scott,

***I can confirm that Audio L/R is swapped compared to OpenHPSDR v3.4.9

***My RX-2 is working fine with good sensitivity through either ADC0 or ADC1. However, it looks like RX-1 and RX-2 are using DDC2 and DDC3 and I think OpenHPSDR uses DDC0 and DDC1. So... if someone is not aware of that they might not have the intended ADC selected for RX-2 as I am not sure what the default ADC selection is with Thetis.

I can report that I ran my 200D on two different 160 meter frequencies last night for about 1.5 hours and it behaved very well. There were no PS blowouts evident to the receiving stations or shown in AmpView, although, my panadapter did display some oddities:

1. Strange ripples on the baseline sometimes at the beginning of a transmission
2. The displayed transmit envelope of my LSB signal with DUP engaged would show up in the USB with a smaller ghost signal in the LSB. Receiving stations (Gary NC3Z and Jeff NJ2US) indicated that my signal was still perfect at their end so this was a local phenomenon. Stopping and then starting Thetis corrected this.
3. Sudden fuzziness in the MON that would seem to indicate a PS problem, however, the Feedback and Correcting lights still behaved normally and receiving stations indicated that there was no issue with the PS corrected signal.

73,

Rob

200D
FW/Orion_NP_v1.3_TEST1.rbf
Thetis v2.6.2
Last edited by W1AEX on Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:30 pm

That's exactly right on the DDC assignments, Rob.

Other than the L/R audio swap it would appear it is 95% cooked!
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Re: 200D Protocol 2 users: what say you?

Postby NL7F » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:12 pm

I do have Rx2 assigned to DDC3/ADC1. No joy for Rx2 data.
Regarding "chatter" and seg errors at 1536000 my PC is 2.2G i7 HP EliteBook 8560w. PC and 200D connected via D-Link DGS-1005D
gigabit switch. Running W7pro 64bit.

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