Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

cLicari
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby cLicari » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:26 pm

PS test 9 with amp 1300w, external coupler and attenuator installed on 20m

Carl Licari
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:45 pm

OK, here's what I'm seeing: absolutely no problems at all with any of the more recent tests, including the most recent QRO/external coupler test. Sure, there's some heating going on at the beginning of each transmission, two-tone or voice, and that's why you see PureSignal struggling to keep up with the changes in non-linearity (memory effects) during those times, but once the critical devices reach a reasonable level of thermal stability PureSignal is also stable. This is totally normal.

The only bad data points were in those first examples and based on the very strange oscillations in the red line on the amp view display it's my estimation that one of two things are going on:

a) bad data from the coupler, either due to an intermittent connection or perhaps some RFI

b) at 1500W the amp starts to get weird, because at 1300W it was very well behaved.

If running things at 1300W makes it better, then that's what I would do, since there is only 0.6dB difference between 1500 and 1300W.
cLicari
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby cLicari » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:09 pm

Well I'm good with that. I can honestly say there a few things that were not as snugged up ( some SMA connectors and the attenuator) as they should have been. Don't know if that caused any issues but who knows. Which of the boxes on the right side of advanced tab of Amp View do you recommend checked? STBY, MAP, PIN? Presently have STBY and PIN checked.
Thanks for all the help!
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:31 am

PIN and MAP checked are the default and that is what I'd recommend. You can try STBL checked and see if you like it better.
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby WA0VY » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:10 am

For the record, my understanding of these options is they are just that: options. You should check the ones that work best for you given your "operating conditions" on a trial-and-error basis. I asked Carl to try unchecking MAP and checking STBL because I have found with both my OM amps that those settings give me noticeably better PS results. More specifically, I did not find that MAP did much of anything while STBL tamed both amps. My OM 4000 is natively far more linear than my OM 2500A. I had thought that had to do with the difference in tubes. But, based on Carl's results, I'm not so sure since his 2500 uses the same tube as my 4000 while my 2500 uses the GU84b. What I see is that his OM 2500 is as finicky as mine is. For that reason, I run it well south of spec and it behaves just fine. So, I agree with Scott in that you should find your maximum stable output level and run no higher than that. Tuning is also very critical with the 2500, and the "v" tuning procedure is virtually useless in the real world. On the other hand, you can go full legal limit with an OM 4000 and it will run beautifully with PS. So, since we are now talking amps here, it is unlikely that you have a software/hardware issue related to the Anan or either of your couplers.
73 Brent WA0VY
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby cLicari » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:02 pm

Scott...
I have been on 40m for several hours this morning and have to say that all appears to be working well. No extended blow-outs. Fingers crossed ;)
PS Test 10 - 20m vid later in afternoon...

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Carl Licari
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:09 pm

:)
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby K9RX » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:59 pm

Carl,

Did I miss something - what did you do different? And were you experiencing the 'blow-outs' on 40 previously?

Gary
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby cLicari » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:36 am

Gary...
I took the top case off because in the process of changing configurations I found that the the PS case bulkhead nuts and also the 10dB attenuator were loose. I tightened the nuts inside and outside the case. I also checked for cold solder joints on the PS board while it was open. None were found. I can't say is the loose components were a contributing factor or not, but everything appears to be working now.
I had never tested 40m during my issues.
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby W1AEX » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:53 pm

Carl,

It was nice to catch you yesterday on 20 meters. Although we only chatted for a few minutes I was actually listening most of the time you were on the air and it looks like tightening up the loose hardware has corrected the issue. I didn't hear any anomalies or observe any blow-outs in the panadapter. I caught about 30 seconds of one of your transmissions in the video at the link below. Looks great and sounds very nice!

73,

Rob W1AEX

(Note that the jumping baseline that you see in the video was caused by static crashes from some distant storm.)
"One thing I am certain of is that there is too much certainty in the world."
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby K9RX » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:22 am

Carl,

Color me sceptical. We're talking about systems that are 'sealed' essentially most everywhere. So the covers on the radio for example... they go a tremendous way to keep RF out ... the cabling has a shield on it and has very little leakage especially considering the distances covered in the shack as jumpers... I'd guess that if all the screws but one were gone on the "cover' that you tightened up it would work just as well. Seems unlikely that would do it... now the attenuator being loose - IF it was really loose ... that might present an issue but even then you have metal to metal contact, a relatively high impedance circuit feeding back ... so even then it's a stretch ... RF isn't like a hose with a slash in it where the pressure is going to squirt out the water - the 'gap' has to be a significant portion of a wavelength (1/20th wave if I remember correctly) for it to 'get out' through these things ... and a loose screw just won't typically present that way. Besides the fact that if that were the cause, how did it work at all!?

I suspect it will return. Much more often than not mine works fine ... and yet still comes back here and there. I also have the opposite problem where my PS won't work at all. The right hand color bar... I forget what it is, "CORRECT" (?), is green ... but the one next to it, "feedback"? is dark, gone. And there's obviously no PS going on as the signal is a normal ~32 db down IMD signal. The only way I can get it to come back on again is to close the program and restart it. "fixes" it every time.

Gary
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cLicari
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby cLicari » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:47 am

Gary...
I wasn't talking about case screws. It was the nuts inside and outside the case that hold the PS Feedback and Input connections in place. I too was skeptical that only that could improve my problem. In my mind it was a mechanical fix. Those nuts are not there to be loose, but it's the only correction I made and things are improved significantly. Go figure.
Carl Licari
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby K9RX » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:27 pm

Carl, Yes I realized it was the coupler screws... I was just commenting on the fact that for feedback to occur you need a source and a load... you need to 'complete' a path ... that could be to the case, although if your antennas are close by that might be a path.

not kicking improvements ... as an engineer I just know the issues related to intermittency and often the inability and as a result frustration in trying to pin it down. I've for the most part given up on getting CWX to work ... and likewise CW direct from the PC using N1MM+ ...

have a good day ...

g.
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Re: Pure Signal / wiring/ ANAN 8000DLE

Postby K9RX » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:01 pm

I believe it was Brent that suggested to turn off MAP and turn on STBL ... I wrote a note to myself to try this and finally today did indeed try it. For me this reduces (makes worse) the IMD by 10 db. Leaving the defaults on, MAP on, STBL off, makes it better. This is two tone testing.

That was however with just the rig. He mentioned the amp - so I just tried it using the amp, an Expert 2K. Unfortunately I can't do two tone because the rig does its 'beep beep' and stops transmitting almost immediately. No displayed SWR issue on the rig - just stops transmitting. It doesn't do this with SSB. So using SSB I might, might see a slight degradation if I turn off MAP and turn STBL on ... too hard to tell.

This is posted only as additional feedback re the MAP/STBL comment.

Gary
K9RX

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