Thetis 2.9.0 and VAC initialization issues when using ASIO drivers?

[ea3aqr]

I'm having problems from time to time with VAC initialization using ASIO drivers (Sound Blasterx AE-5) .
Seems that audio is not initializing correctly because I have no audio at all when Thetis starts up.

I've never had this kind of issue before...
It appeared in one of the latest releases. It is not a PC related problem because I can use SDR Console without any issue When Thetis is failing.
Sometime changing VAC drivers fixes the problem, sometime I need a radio and Thetis restart and sometimes only a full PC restart solves the issue.

Anyone else experienced the same behavior?

[PaulManc]

I'm having problems from time to time with VAC initialization using ASIO drivers.
Seems that audio is not initializing correctly because I have no audio at all when Thetis starts up.

I've never had this kind of issue...
It appeared in one of the latest releases. It is not a PC related problem because I can use SDR Console without any issue When Thetis is failing.

Anyone else experienced the same behavior?

HI Jordi!

I had that a few times on my 100D with Thetis 2.8.11 and im NOT using VAC....power cycle and shes back on track

[46flatlander]

Anan 8000,same Vac problem here .

[w-u-2-o]

VAC is working perfectly here. 100% reliable with one exception, which is very occasionally I get bad TX audio (robotic sounding, if that makes any sense), and that is fixed by cycling VAC off-to-on. This only happens if I leave things running for many, many hours. RX audio is never effected.

It seems doubtful that hardware type, i.e. firmware, has anything to do with this, but anything is possible. I am using an 8000.

It is probably more likely it may have something to do with the ASIO audio device you are using. I am connecting to Voicemeeter Potato.

This discussion is likely to consume several pages. If someone would please start a new topic about this specifically I can move these posts over there and we can sort this out.

[kc2rgw]

VAC is working perfectly here. 100% reliable with one exception, which is very occasionally I get bad TX audio (robotic sounding, if that makes any sense), and that is fixed by cycling VAC off-to-on. This only happens if I leave things running for many, many hours. RX audio is never effected.

It seems doubtful that hardware type, i.e. firmware, has anything to do with this, but anything is possible. I am using an 8000.

It is probably more likely it may have something to do with the ASIO audio device you are using. I am connecting to Voicemeeter Potato.

This discussion is likely to consume several pages. If someone would please start a new topic about this specifically I can move these posts over there and we can sort this out.

FWIW, that's why I stopped using Voicemeeter and a DAW. I tend to leave my PC running quite a long time between reboots and had to fully bring down and restart Voicemeeter and the rest of the audio software due to having similar issues every few days. I didn't get enough benefit often enough to keep using it vs the complexity.

[ea3aqr]

.

[K1LSB]

VAC is working perfectly here. 100% reliable with one exception, which is very occasionally I get bad TX audio (robotic sounding, if that makes any sense), and that is fixed by cycling VAC off-to-on. This only happens if I leave things running for many, many hours. RX audio is never effected.

It seems doubtful that hardware type, i.e. firmware, has anything to do with this, but anything is possible. I am using an 8000.

It is probably more likely it may have something to do with the ASIO audio device you are using. I am connecting to Voicemeeter Potato.

This discussion is likely to consume several pages. If someone would please start a new topic about this specifically I can move these posts over there and we can sort this out.

FWIW, that's why I stopped using Voicemeeter and a DAW. I tend to leave my PC running quite a long time between reboots and had to fully bring down and restart Voicemeeter and the rest of the audio software due to having similar issues every few days. I didn't get enough benefit often enough to keep using it vs the complexity.

May I ask what you're using now instead of VM and a DAW?

Thanks,
Mark

[w-u-2-o]

Jordi,

First step is to take a look at a screenshot of your Thetis VAC settings. Also, if there is a Soundblaster control panel of some sort, a screenshot of those settings as well.

The fact that your fixes for this run the gamut from resetting VAC to a total reboot of everything does not make good sense, and suggests something wrong outside of Thetis.

When you experience this problem upon starting Thetis, is the VAC1 button illuminated/activated, or is it dark?

Do you use VAC exclusively, or do you mix it with non-VAC audio methods?

Most important: Thetis can get very unhappy if a sound device is missing at startup. If, for some reason, the Soundblaster device is not available to Thetis when Thetis starts up this can cause a situation where a PC reboot is necessary. I don't pretend to understand the "why" of this, but I have experienced it in the past when using remote audio devices that are only present during Remote Desktop (RDP) sessions.

73,

Scott

[w-u-2-o]

FWIW, that's why I stopped using Voicemeeter and a DAW. I tend to leave my PC running quite a long time between reboots and had to fully bring down and restart Voicemeeter and the rest of the audio software due to having similar issues every few days. I didn't get enough benefit often enough to keep using it vs the complexity.

Things should never get that bad. At most you should only need to do a reset of VAC, which can be accomplished by restarting VAC, or just changing a VAC parameter temporarily.

I run:

Thetis<-->Voicemeeter Potato<-->Reaper
Presonus<--------------^

for literally days at a time with only a very occasional cycle of VAC required. And without the DAW I don't even see that problem. Given that the DAW and Voicemeeter need to be restarted in your case (and I'm surprised you have to fully restart Voicemeeter, since it has a "restart audio engine" menu selection), it's very tempting to point the finger of blame on the DAW software. What DAW where you using?

I have to say I'm pretty happy with Reaper. Reaper does force me to use a larger buffer size of 512. With just the Presonus interface attached to Thetis I can go down to 64. With Voicemeeter in the mix I have to go up to 256. With Reaper, 512 to keep the audio smooth. The only other bad behavior I've seen from Reaper is sometimes after an update of Reaper I do have to reboot, but again I blame that on Reaper.

[ea3aqr]

Jordi,

First step is to take a look at a screenshot of your Thetis VAC settings. Also, if there is a Soundblaster control panel of some sort, a screenshot of those settings as well.

Scott, I can post some screenshots, but my VAC settings have worked fine for several years now, it is not a configuration issue.

The fact that your fixes for this run the gamut from resetting VAC to a total reboot of everything does not make good sense, and suggests something wrong outside of Thetis.

Sometimes just selecting another driver or restarting Thetis and the radio solves my issue. But sometimes a need a full PC restart.

When you experience this problem upon starting Thetis, is the VAC1 button illuminated/activated, or is it dark?

Yes it is!, VAC1 is ON, that's the problem...

Do you use VAC exclusively, or do you mix it with non-VAC audio methods?

I use VAC exclusively

Most important: Thetis can get very unhappy if a sound device is missing at startup. If, for some reason, the Soundblaster device is not available to Thetis when Thetis starts up this can cause a situation where a PC reboot is necessary. I don't pretend to understand the "why" of this, but I have experienced it in the past when using remote audio devices that are only present during Remote Desktop (RDP) sessions.

73,

Scott

When Thetis fails to start VAC audio if I close the program I can open and use SRD Console without any problem, then I go back to Thetis and still no audio, so looks like ASIO drivers are working fine, at least using another radio software.

While I'm writing this answer I saw an update for my Sound Blaster driver saying something about issues of audio driver not coming back properly after MUTE. I don't remember if I've muted my sound card before the problem started, lets see if the problem comes again after the driver update.

Anyway, tomorrow I will leave for a 10 days Easter holidays and I will be using my radio remotely thru a VPN on a different computer. Let's see if I have the same problem in a different computer.

73
Jordi

[w-u-2-o]

Jordi,

All I can say is that I've notice no difference in VAC behavior for years now, since the resampler was implemented, other than with the additional options have helped tune performance even better.

Perhaps it's a driver update that happened on the sly? Or a Windows update? Those Windows updates can disturb device advance properties in the sound control panel, especially sample rate. And check that your Soundblaster buffer size in the Soundblaster control panel is the same as in Thetis VAC settings.

73,

Scott

[kc2rgw]

VAC is working perfectly here. 100% reliable with one exception, which is very occasionally I get bad TX audio (robotic sounding, if that makes any sense), and that is fixed by cycling VAC off-to-on. This only happens if I leave things running for many, many hours. RX audio is never effected.

It seems doubtful that hardware type, i.e. firmware, has anything to do with this, but anything is possible. I am using an 8000.

It is probably more likely it may have something to do with the ASIO audio device you are using. I am connecting to Voicemeeter Potato.

This discussion is likely to consume several pages. If someone would please start a new topic about this specifically I can move these posts over there and we can sort this out.

FWIW, that's why I stopped using Voicemeeter and a DAW. I tend to leave my PC running quite a long time between reboots and had to fully bring down and restart Voicemeeter and the rest of the audio software due to having similar issues every few days. I didn't get enough benefit often enough to keep using it vs the complexity.

May I ask what you're using now instead of VM and a DAW?

Thanks,
Mark

I just use a virtual audio cable for running digital modes and for the audio I just use a standard mic pre, a Motu USB interface and the built in CFC and other tools in Thetis.

[kc2rgw]

FWIW, that's why I stopped using Voicemeeter and a DAW. I tend to leave my PC running quite a long time between reboots and had to fully bring down and restart Voicemeeter and the rest of the audio software due to having similar issues every few days. I didn't get enough benefit often enough to keep using it vs the complexity.

Things should never get that bad. At most you should only need to do a reset of VAC, which can be accomplished by restarting VAC, or just changing a VAC parameter temporarily.

I run:

Thetis<-->Voicemeeter Potato<-->Reaper
Presonus<--------------^

for literally days at a time with only a very occasional cycle of VAC required. And without the DAW I don't even see that problem. Given that the DAW and Voicemeeter need to be restarted in your case (and I'm surprised you have to fully restart Voicemeeter, since it has a "restart audio engine" menu selection), it's very tempting to point the finger of blame on the DAW software. What DAW where you using?

I have to say I'm pretty happy with Reaper. Reaper does force me to use a larger buffer size of 512. With just the Presonus interface attached to Thetis I can go down to 64. With Voicemeeter in the mix I have to go up to 256. With Reaper, 512 to keep the audio smooth. The only other bad behavior I've seen from Reaper is sometimes after an update of Reaper I do have to reboot, but again I blame that on Reaper.

I played with VST Host, Reaper and one other. Yes the restart audio engine did work sometimes but not all.

I also use the mic for video conferencing on multiple platforms as well. Somewhere in all that tangle I suspected it was some sort of bitrate negotiation bug.

The weird artifact issue was not just with Thetis, it also manifested over the video conferences as well. Since those are for work, they ultimately won.

[K1LSB]

May I ask what you're using now instead of VM and a DAW?

Thanks,
Mark

I just use a virtual audio cable for running digital modes and for the audio I just use a standard mic pre, a Motu USB interface and the built in CFC and other tools in Thetis.

Thank you. I use Cantabile Lite, it interfaces very smoothly as a Patch Insert with VoiceMeeter and appears to have lower latency than VST Host (at least for me). I run my mic straight into a MOTU M4 (my mic needs the 48V) and I use no Thetis audio processing, all of my processing is done with VST plugins in Cantabile Lite.

Mark

[W4WMT]

Thank you. I use Cantabile Lite, it interfaces very smoothly as a Patch Insert with VoiceMeeter and appears to have lower latency than VST Host (at least for me). I run my mic straight into a MOTU M4 (my mic needs the 48V) and I use no Thetis audio processing, all of my processing is done with VST plugins in Cantabile Lite.

Hi Mark,

In VAC1, which Voicemeeter Input & Output Audio Device do you select?

73,
Bryan

[w-u-2-o]

I also use the mic for video conferencing on multiple platforms as well. Somewhere in all that tangle I suspected it was some sort of bitrate negotiation bug.

That's easy to believe. And it could also be a buffer size mismatch as well. As a rule, the hardware (Soundblaster in this case) sets the buffer size and all other software must follow. If the selected hardware buffer size is too small performance and stability will be bad. If the software (Voicemeeter, Thetis, DAW) are not set to that buffer size there will also be problems. Voicemeeter and most DAWs automatically follow the hardware buffer size (usually visible and adjustable in the software/driver supplied with the hardware) but Thetis does not and must be manually set.

It might be worth your time to go through all the settings and make the entire environment 48KHz "clean", and with matched buffer sizes.

The weird artifact issue was not just with Thetis, it also manifested over the video conferences as well. Since those are for work, they ultimately won.

Interesting. Like most who worked from home in the COVID era, I had to use a wide variety of teleconferencing software, including Teams, Zoom, Go to Meeting, Webex and Skype, depending on the customer or organization. Not once did any of those applications ever complain about my audio devices all being set to 48KHz. It was actually kind of cool having a Behringer B1 feeding through a Presonus interface. People always complimented me on my audio. Of course it's not hard to beat the audio coming out of the average webcam

[K1LSB]

Hi Mark,

In VAC1, which Voicemeeter Input & Output Audio Device do you select?

73,
Bryan

Hi Bryan,

Here's my VAC1 screen:

Audio VAC1.PNG (272.75 KiB) Viewed 3881 times

Mark

[kc2rgw]

Interesting. Like most who worked from home in the COVID era, I had to use a wide variety of teleconferencing software, including Teams, Zoom, Go to Meeting, Webex and Skype, depending on the customer or organization. Not once did any of those applications ever complain about my audio devices all being set to 48KHz. It was actually kind of cool having a Behringer B1 feeding through a Presonus interface. People always complimented me on my audio. Of course it's not hard to beat the audio coming out of the average webcam

Yeah I think between multiple browsers (I use one for the work logins and one for personal) and multiple apps it triggered the issue.

Yes people pay closer attention when the audio is nice in conferences and as a sales engineer it's pretty helpful for me.

I definitely found that keeping 48kHz greatly minimizes the issues and I don't monitor myself while operating generally so the latency isn't a big deal.