Installing Thetis for the first time

[K9RX]

Questions:

1) can Thetis be installed into a different folder system so that I can keep my existing 3.4.9 system as is?

2) if not, the oft mentioned "backup everything" ... is it all contained in one top level folder, that I can just rename as "_PSDR" or somesuch and then install Thetis to the existing folder - or is data/are there folders elsewhere that might not be obvious?

[I'm aware of the differences in firmware protocol - Thetis perfers 2 and of course PSDR works on 1.]

Gary
K9RX

[ramdor]

Thetis default main exe path will either be :

C:\Program Files (x86)\OpenHPSDR\Thetis
or
C:\Program Files\OpenHPSDR\Thetis

Thetis default data path will either be :

C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\OpenHPSDR\Thetis
or
C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\OpenHPSDR\Thetis-x64

However there are some things that are stored in C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\OpenHPSDR such as

DXMemory.xml (and _bak)
memory.xml (and _bak)
Skins (folder)


I do not know what the default install/data paths for PSDR are, as I have only used it for 20 mins or so back in 2019

Richie.

[K9RX]

Thanks - so I assume the bits at the bottom will make it necessary to backup. Just changing the install path isn't going to negate the fact that 3.4.9 also uses that folder for those files.

Gary

[ramdor]

yes probably, I do not know if any changes have been made to thetis so they would become incompatible. I will probably move the .xml files into thetis folder when I get back to working on it so that they unique.

[w-u-2-o]

PowerSDR mRX and Thetis will happily coexist on the same PC without doing anything special. They store everything in different locations. If you are running Protocol 1 firmware you can bounce back and forth between them like the wind, just don't try to run them at the same time.

If you are running Protocol 2 firmware then of course you will be limited to Thetis, but merely having PowerSDR installed will not cause any problems.

[K9RX]

Thanks guys.... I made duplicate folders just to be safe (and I routinely backup).

Going to go with Prot2 for Thetis.

Gary
K9RX

[K9RX]

Being anal as hell is good at times - and is a real pita at other times... so - the only thread I see that seems to have the full install is one dated 2017. The site has an msi file for 2.8.11 dated Oct 2020. Is that where I have to start - or since I am ok with going to the latest beta is there an easier way to just start with it, realizing this is, as the subject says, a first install of Thetis?

Additionally, I follow this forum every day religiously - which is part of the reason why I'm so late to the game - there have been many impactful threads and posts, things that would directly apply to my daily operations. And the betas have had caveats here there and often ... I think one of the latest is something about holding down the CTRL button on startup? I've read about it - but need to find the 'start' of that so I know why that is being done and if it is a requirement.

And I'm not even sure but believe I have to first switch to the new protocol... THEN install Thetis.

Gary
K9RX
Anan8000DLE

[w-u-2-o]

Being anal as hell is good at times - and is a real pita at other times...

Gary--for someone so "anal" you don't seem to find and read the important and obvious topics on the forum, at least not very thoroughly.

so - the only thread I see that seems to have the full install is one dated 2017. The site has an msi file for 2.8.11 dated Oct 2020. Is that where I have to start - or since I am ok with going to the latest beta is there an easier way to just start with it, realizing this is, as the subject says, a first install of Thetis?

Perhaps you are not reading carefully enough.

In the beta topic, viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3817 it says:

"Instructions: Expand the contents of the zip (all files) over the top of your existing files in your install folder. Make a backup of the files before replacing if you so desire."

This implies (perhaps not strongly enough) that there has to be an existing installation of Thetis to start with.

With respect to an initial installation of Thetis it's not clear how you missed this topic, because it is tacked at the top of the Thetis sub-forum: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3557

Additionally, I follow this forum every day religiously - which is part of the reason why I'm so late to the game - there have been many impactful threads and posts, things that would directly apply to my daily operations. And the betas have had caveats here there and often ... I think one of the latest is something about holding down the CTRL button on startup? I've read about it - but need to find the 'start' of that so I know why that is being done and if it is a requirement.

Are the instructions here not clear enough: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3817 ?

And I'm not even sure but believe I have to first switch to the new protocol... THEN install Thetis.

And again you did not read this topic thoroughly, because if you had you'd know that is not the case: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3557

[K9RX]

Scott,

First I'll apologize - I figured knowing you from your presence here it would be there - SOMEWHERE... but I have to be honest also and say I'm overwhelmed by SO much information. There isn't a clear presentation of the important stuff - there are so many threads that proclaim releases and upgrades and that haven't been updated in years... sites that you reference but then you say "but it is rather dated" and indeed the info doesn't seem to be up to date. Take it this way: I am NOT a network/computer engineer - I AM a development engineer but now getting long in the tooth - and I'm struggling to put all this stuff together.

I'm also unclear if I should jump to the latest beta (after having installed the full release of course, I realized that) or stay with the full release, now nearly 18 months old... the plus of the new betas is that things are getting fixed - the minus is the uncertainty of issues being introduced. Perhaps and I suspect so - your links will clarify these points.

I'll go to the references you gave - thank you for that and thanks for your patience. If you're ok with it I'll repost here where I still have issues. I HAVE been all over the forum for days now - seriously looking for a pathway either completely described or in parts (the former highly preferred)... it might well be I've been to the links you've mentioned and didn't see it as clearly as you'd hope/want. I'll let you know in the hopes of clarifying it.

Last: I had noted a few months ago a good friend of mine, NN4X, whom I talk to daily on skype (we DX together) was so impressed with what I was telling him re how the "radio" works he ordered a 7000. He had it for a few months - had lots of issues with it not being reliable at all - posted some questions on the groups - and finally in frustration gave up and sold it. That is what I'm trying to avoid - for me being forced back to a 100% day to day reliable radio, which I currently have with 3.4.9.

Gary

[w-u-2-o]

Scott,

First I'll apologize - I figured knowing you from your presence here it would be there - SOMEWHERE... but I have to be honest also and say I'm overwhelmed by SO much information. There isn't a clear presentation of the important stuff - there are so many threads that proclaim releases and upgrades and that haven't been updated in years... sites that you reference but then you say "but it is rather dated" and indeed the info doesn't seem to be up to date.

There is certainly a lot of information. But in this case none of your points apply. Of the two topics I referred you to, one is "tacked", which announces its importance, and the other has been the busiest and most important topic in recent memory. You even posted in it so you knew it was there. Neither are dated.

I'm also unclear if I should jump to the latest beta (after having installed the full release of course, I realized that) or stay with the full release, now nearly 18 months old... the plus of the new betas is that things are getting fixed - the minus is the uncertainty of issues being introduced. Perhaps and I suspect so - your links will clarify these points.

The links won't clarify this issue for you.

A new "production" release, with an installer, is due out "shortly". I'll take a wild guess and say within a month. If you don't want to get involved with the more complex process of installing 2.8.11 then patching it with the beta files, I'd say wait. And because you admit to struggling, being patient and waiting for this next formal release with its installer might be the best path for you.

Last: I had noted a few months ago a good friend of mine, NN4X, whom I talk to daily on skype (we DX together) was so impressed with what I was telling him re how the "radio" works he ordered a 7000. He had it for a few months - had lots of issues with it not being reliable at all - posted some questions on the groups - and finally in frustration gave up and sold it. That is what I'm trying to avoid - for me being forced back to a 100% day to day reliable radio, which I currently have with 3.4.9.

If there is one thing that has become glaringly obvious since the first Hermes board was sold in a box as a "radio", running openHPSDR software (PowerSDR mRX or Thetis or piHPSDR, etc.) on Apache hardware is NOT for everyone. Just like building a Class E AM transmitter or an EME station is not for everyone. Being on the bleeding edge of SDR development, using a radio at this level of complexity and capability, requires study, skill, experience and perseverance. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that the product is not turnkey, that the software and firmware are open source, and that all of it is not subject to the thousands if not tens of thousands of hours of formal verification and testing that one might find in, say, a Yaesu product. It requires knowledge not only of radio and RF theory, but also knowledge of computer networking and the Windows operating system. Those who are willing to climb the learning curve can achieve toaster-like reliability. For some it's easy. For others a lot of hard work. For a few, just not worth the effort.

For people who want things like diversity beamforming, adaptive predistortion linearization, look-ahead VOX, the equivalent of an audio rack, spectral estimation noise reduction ("NR2"), synchronous AM detection, and probably two or three dozen other things not available ANYWHERE in ANY other radio, there is an intellectual price to be paid.

[W2PA]

Gary,

First let me echo Scott's sentiment about leading edge, sometimes jokingly called the bleeding edge for good reasons.

The extra effort put into understanding the operation of Thetis and other pieces of software has rewarded me with the most advanced, feature-rich, and customizable radio I've seen. I consider my setup stable and reliable enough for weak signal DX chasing and casual operating on any mode including digital ones. I woudn't go so far as to say it would be what one would use for a really serious contest operation because there is always the possibility of a random software crash that would cost you time and points. On the other hand, I've used it non-seriously (but intensely) in contests to make hundreds of QSOs with no problems.

As to installing fresh from scratch, I see no reason why you couldn't start by installing protocol-2 and then following Richie's instructions at the top of the "UPDATES and current issues" discussion (https://apache-labs.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3817). To summarize, you'd install Thetis 2.8.11 using the standard installer on the TAPR git repository (what he calls the "base 2_8_11 TAPR version". Then, follow his instructions to the letter and apply only the most recent update (21k9b as of this date). There are only 4 instructions! If one is unclear, ask there, or right here. This should get you going, aside from additional things like WSJT-X, CAT, MIDI, etc. Of course, keep a separate stable installation you like as a fallback position in case something goes wrong. Then, try again!

If you went back to the original you'd be giving up a huge amount of new function. And in my view, the sheer volume of bugs and issues Richie has fixed far outweigh any newly introduced issues.

[DH1KLM]

Thetis perfers 2 and of course PSDR works on 1.]

You can run Thetis also with prot. 1 at a reduced samplerate of course.
There is no need to load prot. 2 right now to work with Thetis.
If you are more familiar with bootloader software and so on, you can update your Anan to prot. 2 at any time you like.

[w-u-2-o]

Thetis perfers 2 and of course PSDR works on 1.]

You can run Thetis also with prot. 1 at a reduced samplerate of course.
There is no need to load prot. 2 right now to work with Thetis.

That's a good point, Sigi. And it is arguably not a "reduced samplerate" compared to PowerSDR mRX. PowerSDR requires 192KHz with PureSignal enabled, and that's what Thetis requires with Protocol 1, so it's really no change for most people.

[DH1KLM]

I meant the reduced samplerate compared to prot. 2.
192k vs. 1536k

[w-u-2-o]

I know that, Sigi, but I was trying to be a "glass is half full" kind of person, as opposed to "half empty"

The point being that someone coming over to Thetis from PowerSDR and still running P1 probably would not notice that difference.

[DH1KLM]

I know that, Sigi, but I was trying to be a "glass is half full" kind of person, as opposed to "half empty"

[K9RX]

Scott,

You are absolutely right - and my apologies. I had already seen those links and downloaded to my desktop.... my 'fear' was, and I probably shouldn't have used that word, the substantial amount of 'other' threads after the fact coupled with the age of those links to begin with.

So I installed Thetis yesterday - all seemed to go fine. There's a good bit of 'work' left out of your new release doc that I was hoping would be shown/included for others (including myself). Fortunately, I had taken screen shots of all my PSDR panels ahead of time and used that data to bring it around to my needs. The ANT configuration (I use the OC for all antenna control/selection), TX profiles and MIDI being three of them. I stopped there because I do want to go to the latest beta and I'm not sure if I'll be forced to start from scratch from where I am currently.

And 3.4.9 just picked up where it was so I'm very pleased that I can continue to use the radio on a daily basis while occasionally running Thetis instead - and bringing it up to current status. Kudos.

Then today I see that there is a new release altogether. WHOOHOO! AND a (more) thorough mention of those outstanding settings by yourself. And it appears a follow-on by Richie of a tool to make this more automatic. Very nice.

So - I'll get to it. Thanks to you, Richie, and the others that have been hammering away at it.

Gary

[K9RX]

Latest Thetis installed - all is well so far. Looks great! Running well.

I'll run this for a couple weeks and then jump to Prot2. Since I've no desire to use more than 192Khz I assume the only other benefit is that it will use the 1G ethernet - correct?

Puresignal, which was one of my hesitations for not installing it - seems more seamless now - however last night while using it on 10M I noticed two things:
a) the IMD reduction was not as good as I had been accustomed to using 3.4.9 (60db vs. 50 db).
b) there was an occasional lifting of the floor while transmitting - covering the full width of the DUP TX window with a sine wave. Granted it was maybe 65 db down - but I do use stack yagis and power so I'm concerned it will be seen... hopefully its something I have control over (although PS is totally automatic with no user intervention other than connections - and yes I have "green" bars).

Gary
K9RX

[w-u-2-o]

Gary--if you want to pursue tuning your PS settings start a new topic in the PureSignal sub-forum: viewforum.php?f=20

Migrating to P2 should be seamless. If it isn't you can always go back to P1. Worth a try. And you might like the higher sample rates. It's nice to be able to see an entire band, or an entire sub-band, on your panadapter.