Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

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N4QNT
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Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby N4QNT » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:48 am

Good Day Group, I was listening to a QSO the other day, and the topic was about Apache Anan & the Expert Sun. The station with the Sun DX2 was boasting about how their software is constantly a work in progress with monthly updates and improvements, also with V3 on the way along with a simplified remote client similar to Flex's Smartlink. He went on to say, Richie who use to write and update the code for the Anan is now with Expert heading the V3 project that's supposed to incorporate Pure Signal and that's the big reason for no updates to Thetis or improvement in over 8 months.. After hearing that I immediately sent an email to my friend Rick who is in close contact with Roman at Expert to ask the "Richie Rumor Question" on my behalf and here is his reply..


Dear Rick.

It's still a rumor, we haven't spoken with the guys from the other "camps" and most certainly haven't worked with them.

With best regards
Head of Commercial dept
Roman Volchkov
Tel: +7 (8634) 43-13-01
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17.06.2021 5:23, пишет:

Roman
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kc2rgw
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby kc2rgw » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:42 pm

I own both, a 7000 and a 2 DX. They don’t move very fast with updates, the software is a more modern and better functioning control surface but they have their share of bugs that are not fixed. The 2 DX only has a single ADC so even though they insist they are adding adaptive pre-distortion, I’m unsure how you can do duplex mode with a single ADC…but I’m no engineer.

I do enjoy the Sun or I wouldn’t still have it to play with but it has no Diversity mode and no equivalent to NR2 so unless the band is nice and quiet and nothing noisy is running in the house, the Anan gets most of the air time.

Here’s some of what I think between the two radios.
https://sites.google.com/view/kc2rgw/ho ... sunsdr2-dx
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NJ2US
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby NJ2US » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:54 pm

This video should add to the mystery.

https://youtu.be/o7EVCVQmP1E

Yes, that’s Richie previewing Sun V3 beta software.

There a couple clues, that lead me to believe that Richie is NOT directly involved in the Expert V3 development, first was this reply to a question,

"hi Mark, yep, I agree the GUI does look nice. Hopefully it wont take too long for them to add in all the features from esdr2. 73 Richie."

And my second clue was something he said during the video, when he complimented the appearance of the GUI, Richie is rather modest, and I wouldnt expect him to self compliment like that.



NJ2US
Last edited by NJ2US on Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rbduck
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby rbduck » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:17 pm

It takes a great deal of talent to accomplish what has been with Thetis. This kind of talent has value and will eventually move from being an unpaid volunteer coder to being a paid one. Plus, I see the SDR wars heating up. Adaptive predistortion and NR2 have been great products emanating from a volunteer groups that develops software for the love of the hobby. These are at least two products that no other SDR manufacturers have.
It would be insane not to think that an SDR manufacturer would be willing to pay good money for one or both of these products or features.
One could not fault a person with this kind of talent to expect pay for their talent.

I love my Anan 7000DLE but I have been very concerned over the lack of interest in moving forward with the software. A some point soon, something has to change. Folks like their software updates. Even small regular updates. I think without them people will eventually stop buying.
Rumors can make or brake a company. No sign of forward progress will sink one.

I hope there are things in the back rooms that I am unaware of that will bring new life into the development of Thetis. There is an old saying that states, "You can't get something for nothing." At least for not very long. I hope my fears will soon be abated.
73
Ruben
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Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
K1LSB
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby K1LSB » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:04 pm

In this thread I keep seeing rather alarmist statements regarding a "lack of updates" but there are no specifics mentioned, simply the assertion that "people expect updates".

When I bought my 7000 I knew there was a possibility that there may be no updates coming. That didn't matter to me, for the following reasons:

1) The radio is by far the best value out there, in terms of what you get per dollar spent (dual receivers, dual front end filtering, PureSignal, diversity receive, 100% conformity to the HPSDR hardware/software interface standard, software selectable antenna ports per band, Apache Labs hardware pedigree, in-country repair services, readily available hardware/software expertise for the asking [thanks Scott, Laurence et al!], and the freedom from being dependent on a single source for both hardware and software support [contrast that with Flex]).

2) I knew the software pretty much worked as designed already - as Scott has noted in multiple posts, Thetis is mature. So even if there were never any further updates I figured I could live with that just fine. In any case, I'm not going to whine about a couple of inconsequential defects - as we're all well aware, there's no such thing as 100% defect-free software.

3) The software is open source and can be modified by anyone with the skill and the desire (contrast that with SmartSDR from Flex).

4) Software updates, when they do come, are free.

5) The radio is thick client: i.e., the radio is not the limiting factor in processing power or speed (contrast that with Flex).

6) The software audio tools are head-and-shoulders above anything anyone else has to offer.

7) The ability to adjust buffer size, sample rates, filter type, etc., to minimize latency is very important to me, and is something which Flex offers very little control over (Flex audio latency is among the worst out there, according to the data I'd read while doing the research).

Now compare those above points with either Flex or SunSDR:

1) Flex and SunSDR radios are both tied to (and 100% dependent on) proprietary software to function at all. Personally, as a former Flex owner I'll never put myself in the position of being dependent on the same company for hardware and software support again.

2) Flex charges how much for a software version upgrade?? And is any prior version of SmartSDR even supported anymore (I don't think so)??

2a) Flex has been promising (okay, insinuating) for years that "adaptive predistortion is coming", but that "update" is still vaporware. So whenever someone mentions "lack of updates" I'll always be reminded of Flex's carrot on a stick.

3) SunSDR is made where (Russia)??

3a) If the radio needs servicing, you have to send it where??

3b) If the political situation between Russia and the U.S. deteriorates (it will, lol), what are the chances of any further software updates coming?

I only ask the questions above purely as food for thought.

Carry on,
Mark
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NJ2US
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby NJ2US » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:37 pm

I received a DIRECT reply from Richie, MW0LWE, on his YouTube channel, that he is NOT working with Expert SDR on Version 3 of their software, confirming Art’s info.

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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby rbduck » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:46 pm

K1LSB wrote:When I bought my 7000 I knew there was a possibility that there may be no updates coming. That didn't matter to me, for the following reasons:


Every point you make is valid and true. I agree with you for what it's worth. I purchased my 7000 after many hours of reading and contemplation.
It is the best radio on the market in my opinion.

Keep pounding the drum and hopefully people will listen and take what you say to heart. Human nature is a difficult force to contend with.
In the meantime this thread feels as if it's turning into a political discussion. Ham politics. I didn't intend to throw more fuel onto the fire.
73
Ruben
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby ramdor » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:41 pm

Hey folks,

Sorry I have been mia for a while, but I confirm that I have had nothing to do with ESDR3 from EE so I can put the rumour to bed for sure.

As it happens I updated my visual studio install recently, and have just downloaded the most recent (at least I hope so) source of Thetis, so may start looking at it again. I can't promise any changes or updates in the short term but desire/intent is building again ;)

All the best for now, and hope everyone is well and doing ok in the current conditions.

73 Richie - MW0LGE.
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby NC3Z » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:52 pm

:D :D :D :D :D
Gary NC3Z
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby NJ2US » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:06 am

Couldn’t imagine any better post pandemic news for the Apache and Thetis community. Thanks for the update Richie. Cheers!

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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby oe3ide » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:41 am

Hey Richie,

maybe you can get in touch with Alex, DL1KD. He implemented some very usefull features into Thetis:

1. 2-Tone from the GUI
2. "Peak Blobs" on/off from the GUI
3. CFC on/off from the GUI
4. new start logo with countdown timer

Would be nice, to have this in the "official" thetis branch.

73 de Ernst
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby ramdor » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:02 am

Ernst,

The front end GUI has so much clutter on there already it is madness in my opinion to add more. How many operators for instance use two tone all the time? Why would 95% of ops need to stare at a two tone, cfc button or a blob on/off? Are those a feature that would get lots of clicks on the button being on the main UI? I think not somehow.

At the moment I am entirely working on bug fixing anything that appears in the other thread. I am not contemplating adding anything new at this point.

This thread could do with going dormant as related to false rumours.

Richie - MW0LGE.
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rbduck
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby rbduck » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:12 am

ramdor wrote:Hey folks,

Sorry I have been mia for a while, but I confirm that I have had nothing to do with ESDR3 from EE so I can put the rumour to bed for sure.

As it happens I updated my visual studio install recently, and have just downloaded the most recent (at least I hope so) source of Thetis, so may start looking at it again. I can't promise any changes or updates in the short term but desire/intent is building again ;)

All the best for now, and hope everyone is well and doing ok in the current conditions.

73 Richie - MW0LGE.


Thanks Richie!
:P :) ;) :D
Last edited by rbduck on Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
73
Ruben
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby K1LSB » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:14 pm

Thanks for the support, Richie!

..I've always thought it's a shame there's no Thanks or Like or Upvote buttons in these fora..

Mark
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby oe3ide » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:32 pm

The front end GUI has so much clutter on there already it is madness in my opinion to add more. How many operators for instance use two tone all the time? Why would 95% of ops need to stare at a two tone, cfc button or a blob on/off? Are those a feature that would get lots of clicks on the button being on the main UI? I think not somehow.

At the moment I am entirely working on bug fixing anything that appears in the other thread. I am not contemplating adding anything new at this point.


I fully agree, first bug fixing is a perfect way. Richie, thanks for your effort!
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby DL8LAQ » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:54 pm

ramdor wrote:Hey folks,
As it happens I updated my visual studio install recently, and have just downloaded the most recent (at least I hope so) source of Thetis, so may start looking at it again. I can't promise any changes or updates in the short term but desire/intent is building again ;)

All the best for now, and hope everyone is well and doing ok in the current conditions.

Hi Richie,

nice too see you are alive :-)
73, Norbert - DL8LAQ - ANAN-G2 w/display - Richie's latest Thetis version and pihpsdr by N1GP&DL1YCF
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Re: Over the Air Rumors and lack of Thetis updates???

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:46 pm

Richie has asked that further discussion on Thetis bugs to be posted here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3817

We are all very happy that Richie has returned to the scene, but now that the rumors have been quashed, this thread is going to be locked in order to prevent it from generating any more ;)

Thanks,

Scott

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