Noise Burst on initial transmit

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Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:54 am

I hope I have posted this in the correct area.

I have 7000DLE MKII black running Thetis 2.8.11. Some folks I talk to have pointed this out to me. I never noticed before. At the moment I push the PTT or use the keyboard spacebar to transmit, there is short noise burst on my transmission. If the noise is squelched or if I use VOX, this does not occur. I can see this on the screen. Everyone I talk to seems to notice and mention it. I have looked and read and searched and have not found anything obvious to solve the issue.

It is not practical to have the noise squelched all the time. Signals I receive that are just level with noise cannot be heard because they don't quite break the squelch. I've searched for a setting I may be overlooking that might resolve the problem. I have tried numerous settings to no avail. I have also reset the database. It seems as though the received noise is momentarily being transmitted before it is completely attenuated.
The timespan of the noise is from 30 to 50ms.

Thank you for your time.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:22 pm

You need to tell us more about how the audio gets from your microphone into the radio. Straight shot mic into the ANAN, or something else?
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby mcindan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:33 pm

I also see a noise burst at the start of a transmission, in this case it is FT8. The noise looks like it is coming from the receiver just prior to the input from WSJT-X.

Since it is around 50db below the transmit level of 0dBm it is not a problem but I would rather it was not there. I wonder if there is a delay setting that can resolve this. Not sure if this is similar to what you are seeing.

2021-03-27 09_16_01-Window.png
initial noise burst
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby mcindan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:43 pm

I should have mentioned that I am also running a 7000DLE MKII black edition (received early in 2021). Thetis: v2.8.1.1 Firmware: Protocol_2_v1.9

For FT8 I have the VAC1 RXGain (Thetis) at -25dB. I am using VM Bananna with VAC1 gains set at 0dB.

If I increase the VAC1 RXGain (Thetis) to 0dB the rx signal burst at the start of TX would be an issue, as seen below:
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby w9mdb » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:49 pm

That looks like it's receiving...I see a lot of what looks like FT8 signals there.
So it appears transmit has not occurred yet.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby mcindan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:55 pm

Yes, it appears to be FT8 receive - the capture is from the TX display, not the RX display.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby mcindan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:01 pm

On transmit there is a burst of RX signal at the start of the transmission. PTT from WSJT-X or MOX result in the same issue. It appears I am seeing the same thing as in the original post.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby KA1GXR » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:09 pm

I am probably having the same issues. Anan 200D using USB mic. on Vac. Reported on LSB. Does appear to be grabbing a bit of RX audio on initial keyup. Thetis 28.11. I suspect that changing some keyup delays may help. Have not tried to modify any lately.

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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby W1AEX » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:14 pm

EDIT: Looks like Tom and I had the same idea at about the same time ;)

I'm curious if any of the transition timing settings along the left side of the Thetis "Options/Options-1" menu page might help with this issue. Would be worth a shot if you have not tried them out.

73, Rob W1AEX

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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:19 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:You need to tell us more about how the audio gets from your microphone into the radio. Straight shot mic into the ANAN, or something else?


Thank you again and here is a description of the Audio chain. I have an Audio-Technica AT2020 going into the remote box for the Sound Blaster AE-9 audio card. I'm feeding that virtually into Voicemeeter Potato. That feeds in and out of Thetis via the Voicemeeter Virtual Asio Channels as shown below. I'm using the "Direct Mode" feature in the Sound Blaster app. That provides unprocessed audio through the card. The audio from Thetis is fabulous. I wouldn't even worry about the noise, but some of the folks I'm speaking with are annoyed. I try a run with the squelch on as much as possible. I also run VOX as much as possible. I'm still getting that tweaked to work properly.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:30 pm

W1AEX wrote:EDIT: Looks like Tom and I had the same idea at about the same time ;)

I'm curious if any of the transition timing settings along the left side of the Thetis "Options/Options-1" menu page might help with this issue. Would be worth a shot if you have not tried them out.

73, Rob W1AEX

Image


I will try these settings and see what happens. Rob I use a lot of information I gained from your site. I have read a lot of information that both you and Scott have either provided or pointed to. I have tweaked so many settings I can't keep p with them. Each and every one that I try and don't get results from goes right back to it's initial settings. Plus I do one setting at a time. It as been a slow arduous process. I have discovered a lot of things in Thetis I didn't know existed. I'll get back once I try these settings you pointed to. Also, I remember this has been there from day one. I remember seeing the burst on the screen. Nobody has bothered mentioning actually hearing it until now.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby mcindan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:42 pm

The only option that made any sense to me was the RF Delay. If I set this to 500 (maximum) it does delay RF until after the RX audio burst is gone but this is not a viable solution in my opinion.

I assume the RX audio burst is coming from a buffer but I don't understand why it should even be there during the TX sequence.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:47 pm

OK...so this is related to VAC use. I have used a wide variety of VAC configurations, some quite complex, and have never observed this problem. It is unlikely to be associated with the delay settings. I use 0, 0, 2 and 0, so even less delay than most. No problem.

I am more suspicious of people's Voicemeeter or Muzy VAC setups.

@rbduck

Ruben--please post screen shots of your Voicemeeter main UI and system setting/options page, and if your Sound Blaster card has a control panel, please post a screen shot of that as well.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:50 pm

Yes Rob, Those settings didn't really make a difference. Here is what the burst looks like on the screen. It is the bottom capture. Above it is the same time frame with squelch enabled. From the responses it seems that others are having a similar issue. I'll keep looking and if I find the resolution, I will be sure to post the results.
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Burstpng.png
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:07 pm

While waiting for more screen shots, my guess is that Ruben has a large buffer somewhere in his audio chain, so large that it is in the milliseconds range. Thus the audio in it is delayed substantially compared to the PTT signal.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:44 pm

I have found a setting that seems to have eliminated the burst of noise. There is a setting located in the General>Ant/Filters>Antenna page. I selected the "Rx BYPASS on TX" setting. There have been no bursts of noise on the first part of the transmission thus far. I am not sure if this will affect anything else. "YET" :cry: In the Thetis manual this exact setting does not exist but a similarly named setting does. On page 79, the setting "BYPASS on TX" is described thusly: "Select BYPASS during TX: to be used when an external PA feedback connection to the Bypass connector is used with ANAN100D/200D with rev24 PA board (This is radio specific)." Most all the settings in this area of the page are described as being specific to the Anan100D and 200D radios. The "Rx" may have been added to the setting later for clarity. I'm just speculating.

I will update later ow the change is working of if I run into issues. So far it is working well.

Edit: Scott, I just saw your post asking for screen shots I will provide them ASAP. We are having very bad weather here right now. It's the severe weather time of year.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby mcindan » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:01 pm

For me "RX BYPASS on Tx" makes no difference, I still have the RX audio burst at the start of TX sequence.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:13 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:OK...so this is related to VAC use. I have used a wide variety of VAC configurations, some quite complex, and have never observed this problem. It is unlikely to be associated with the delay settings. I use 0, 0, 2 and 0, so even less delay than most. No problem.

I am more suspicious of people's Voicemeeter or Muzy VAC setups.

@rbduck

Ruben--please post screen shots of your Voicemeeter main UI and system setting/options page, and if your Sound Blaster card has a control panel, please post a screen shot of that as well.


In the Sound Blaster Command app there is a setting that is called direct mode. It is supposed to bypass all settings and give the purest sound. All other settings are locked and cannot be changed when in this mode.

The Voicemeeter settings automatically followed the changes I made in the Windows 10 sound configuration. I have not tried adjusting anything there. I am open to any suggestions. Thank you for the help and information.

Edit: I have spent many weeks (if not months) investigating this issue. I get in no hurry. Solving these sorts of things is part of the fun I have in the hobby. I try to find solutions without troubling anyone else. I learn more when I solve issues myself. I love this hobby.
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VM.png
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:45 pm

Yowza! So many things to fix...

First, if you are using PureSignal with the internal coupler you can't have RX Bypass on TX selected if you want PureSignal to work properly. With this selected, RX1 is connected to the Bypass connector on the rear panel during TX.

Second, you need to match your sample rate on the Soundblaster to everything else. In Voicemeeter and Thetis you are using 96KHz. Set your Soundblaster to 96KHz. If you can't do that, then set everything else back to 48KHz to match the Soundblaster card.

Third, we need to see the recording settings on the Soundblaster.

Fourth, and perhaps most important, your settings in Voicemeeter don't make any sense.

- The channel you have labeled as "Sys Sound" is the one your are using for Thetis per your Thetis VAC screen shot above. So label it properly.
- I have no idea what you are using the B2 channel for, but it can't be Thetis. Label it properly.
- Is the B3 channel really assigned to and used by SDR Console? If not, label it properly.
- You want your Virtual ASIO Type to be Float32LSB.
- This is probably the problem right here: anything with a B1 Send assigned is going to send TX audio to Thetis. The ONLY channel that should have the B1 Send turned on is A1, the microphone input. Turn off all other B1 Sends!
- Anything with an A1 send is going to send audio to your Soundblaster speaker output. Turn off any A1 Sends that are not in use or that you don't want to send audio to your speakers.

Sort all that out and see what you have. But the very, very first thing I'd do is turn off all B1 Sends except for the B1 Send on channel A1.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:48 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:Yowza! So many things to fix...

First, if you are using PureSignal with the internal coupler you can't have RX Bypass on TX selected if you want PureSignal to work properly. With this selected, RX1 is connected to the Bypass connector on the rear panel during TX.

I will disable that.


w-u-2-o wrote:Second, you need to match your sample rate on the Soundblaster to everything else. In Voicemeeter and Thetis you are using 96KHz. Set your Soundblaster to 96KHz. If you can't do that, then set everything else back to 48KHz to match the Soundblaster card.

I'll get those and post them here. One things that concerns me are some adjustments the Sound Blaster manual stated were only adjustable after Direct Mode is enabled. That would be two sets of filters. Those filters were no longer adjustable after about the second update I received.
I may have to uninstall all the Sound Blaster software and drivers an start over. As it is now, after Direct Mode is enabled, all internal settings are shaded and non-adjustable.

w-u-2-o wrote:Third, we need to see the recording settings on the Soundblaster.

I'll get those

w-u-2-o wrote:Fourth, and perhaps most important, your settings in Voicemeeter don't make any sense.
- The channel you have labeled as "Sys Sound" is the one your are using for Thetis per your Thetis VAC screen shot above. So label it properly.

Yes, I have moved some things around and I should have moved the labeling also. I'll see to that :oops:


w-u-2-o wrote:- I have no idea what you are using the B2 channel for, but it can't be Thetis. Label it properly.
- Is the B3 channel really assigned to and used by SDR Console? If not, label it properly.

It is still configured so I can use SDR-console, but it has been a long time since I have opened SDR-Console. I'll remove it. I can always
put it back later.

w-u-2-o wrote:- You want your Virtual ASIO Type to be Float32LSB.

Another Oops. I changed it a couple of days back. I missed putting it back like it was.

w-u-2-o wrote:- This is probably the problem right here: anything with a B1 Send assigned is going to send TX audio to Thetis. The ONLY channel that should have the B1 Send turned on is A1, the microphone input. Turn off all other B1 Sends!
- Anything with an A1 send is going to send audio to your Soundblaster speaker output. Turn off any A1 Sends that are not in use or that you don't want to send audio to your speakers.

I should have caught this and I knew better. I'll make the changes.

w-u-2-o wrote:Sort all that out and see what you have. But the very, very first thing I'd do is turn off all B1 Sends except for the B1 Send on channel A1.

As soon as I have everything changed , I'll be back. Thank You Scott.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:23 am

w-u-2-o wrote:Yowza! So many things to fix...

First, if you are using PureSignal with the internal coupler you can't have RX Bypass on TX selected if you want PureSignal to work properly. With this selected, RX1 is connected to the Bypass connector on the rear panel during TX.

Disabled


w-u-2-o wrote:Second, you need to match your sample rate on the Soundblaster to everything else. In Voicemeeter and Thetis you are using 96KHz. Set your Soundblaster to 96KHz. If you can't do that, then set everything else back to 48KHz to match the Soundblaster card.

Sound Blaster Command is set to 96k 24 bit on both recording and playback settings. I set the Microphone boost to 0db on the recording settings screen. I read somewhere that the "microphone boost" should be set to 0db. Is this correct?

w-u-2-o wrote:Third, we need to see the recording settings on the Soundblaster.

Screen capture is listed below. Where should Microphone Recording Volume be set?

w-u-2-o wrote:Fourth, and perhaps most important, your settings in Voicemeeter don't make any sense.
- The channel you have labeled as "Sys Sound" is the one your are using for Thetis per your Thetis VAC screen shot above. So label it properly.

I changed that all so it is correct.


w-u-2-o wrote:- I have no idea what you are using the B2 channel for, but it can't be Thetis. Label it properly.
- Is the B3 channel really assigned to and used by SDR Console? If not, label it properly.

It is still configured so I can use SDR-console, but it has been a long time since I have opened SDR-Console. I'll remove it. I can always
put it back later. Audio-Technica is set to B1. All others disabled.

w-u-2-o wrote:- You want your Virtual ASIO Type to be Float32LSB.

Changed Virtual ASIO type to Float32LSB

w-u-2-o wrote:- This is probably the problem right here: anything with a B1 Send assigned is going to send TX audio to Thetis. The ONLY channel that should have the B1 Send turned on is A1, the microphone input. Turn off all other B1 Sends!
- Anything with an A1 send is going to send audio to your Soundblaster speaker output. Turn off any A1 Sends that are not in use or that you don't want to send audio to your speakers.

The Audio-Technica channel is set to B1. All others are off.

w-u-2-o wrote:Sort all that out and see what you have. But the very, very first thing I'd do is turn off all B1 Sends except for the B1 Send on channel A1.

I have it all changed. I have verified that Pure Signal works correctly. The noise burst is still there. (drat)
So to summarize, I have set everything to 96k 24 bit including Sound Blaster Command. On the SB Command playback page the filter is set to "fast rolloff" and "96k 24bit"

One other question. In the Voice Meeter setup screen, Should "Buffering ASIO" and "ASIO SR" be set to "default?"
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:56 am

One thing I noticed. If I disconnect the microphone or reduce the microphone level (Audio-Technica) the burst of noise disappears. So the noise is getting in through the microphone before the receive is muted on transmit. I need to locate a setting that kills the receive faster or delays the sound from the microphone. I'm thinking out loud here. I have something to look for now.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:09 pm

rbduck wrote:One thing I noticed. If I disconnect the microphone or reduce the microphone level (Audio-Technica) the burst of noise disappears. So the noise is getting in through the microphone before the receive is muted on transmit.
This is exactly as I posted above. But I'm still thinking there is an overt feedback path.

I need to locate a setting that kills the receive faster or delays the sound from the microphone. I'm thinking out loud here. I have something to look for now.
I don't think there is a setting like this, and if there was it would create an unacceptable delay.

Mic boost in your Soundblaster control panel is nothing to worry about. It is mic dependent. Generally you don't need it.

ASIO settings in Voicemeeter should be at "default".

I had hoped that you were getting feedback because of the settings in Voicemeeter. But it may be because of settings in the Soundblaster Mixer controls. I don't have a Soundblaster card but it was easy enough to download the manual. Zero out all recording mixer controls EXCEPT microphone.

Please post updated screen shots of the following:

1. Voicemeeter main UI.

2. Soundblaster Mixer Settings.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:49 pm

Here are the captures you requested. It was really early this morning (2am) when I went through and made changes. I went through again to make sure ai didn't miss anything. I've looked at the Sound Blaster manual and nothing jumped out at me. I went trough and reduced levels on all the mixer settings except Microphone and Speakers. I wet into the Speakers sub-mixer settings and reduced all but L and R. I posted those. Also on the Playback page I went into the settings menu next to the tuning fork. I changed the speaker configuration from 5.1 to Stereo.

After all those changes I tested it. The noise is still there. I tried something else. The output of the sound card is fed into an integrated stereo amplifier. We I turned the volume on the amp down the sound disappeared completely. Turned it up and it's there. Wit the sound off on the stereo amp, I increased the sound output via RX1 on the Thetis UI. The noise is completely gone. The intensity of the sound burst is directly proportional to the volume on the amp. (during the test) The louder the noise feeding into the microphone the more intense the burst.

I will continue to look for something in the chain that ma be inserting noise into the signal. I assume that is what you were suggesting?

Edit: The sound at this point doesn't seem to be nearly as pronounced as it has been. I need to speak with someone that originally pointed it out and see if they still hear it. If I can find an SDR station on line where I can make a decent recording, I will try that also.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:47 pm

rbduck wrote:The output of the sound card is fed into an integrated stereo amplifier. We I turned the volume on the amp down the sound disappeared completely. Turned it up and it's there. Wit the sound off on the stereo amp, I increased the sound output via RX1 on the Thetis UI. The noise is completely gone. The intensity of the sound burst is directly proportional to the volume on the amp. (during the test).

So when the amp volume is decreased and the RX1 AF gain is increased, can you hear the radio normally and at the same time not experience this problem?

In Voicemeeter, on channel A2, "App Sounds", what is that being used for? What happens if you disable the A1 send on that channel?
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby K1LSB » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:16 pm

Just a thought - if your receive audio is coming out of your speakers then disable your speakers and test for the burst again. If the burst is gone then the problem is that your mic is picking up audio that's still coming out of your speakers after the PTT is pushed. If that's the case then you need to either 1) reduce the latency of the audio emanating from your speakers, or 2) increase the RF Delay in the General Options tab.
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Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:05 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:
rbduck wrote:The output of the sound card is fed into an integrated stereo amplifier. We I turned the volume on the amp down the sound disappeared completely. Turned it up and it's there. Wit the sound off on the stereo amp, I increased the sound output via RX1 on the Thetis UI. The noise is completely gone. The intensity of the sound burst is directly proportional to the volume on the amp. (during the test).

So when the amp volume is decreased and the RX1 AF gain is increased, can you hear the radio normally and at the same time not experience this problem?

In Voicemeeter, on channel A2, "App Sounds", what is that being used for? What happens if you disable the A1 send on that channel?

The channel labeled "App Sounds" is where I send all other sound from the computer. Youtube, Any sounds from the browser or from any other application. I send it to that channel through "Cable B." This is configured in Windows 10 "Settings>System>Sound." I had already disabled that. It made no difference.

O the last question I may describe it better by saying "The intensity of the sound burst is directly proportional to the sound level emanating from the speakers." With squelch disabled, if I decrease the amp volume and increase RX1 to normal sound level the intensity of the burst is the same.
If I leave RX1 to a normal sound level and raise the level with the amp volume control, the burst has greater intensity. If I lower the volume at the amp the burst intensity follows the level of the sound emanating from the speakers.

Let me add, what I am describing as sound from the speakers is "the level of regular noise on the band" The noise that sounds like white or pink noise. For example, if I lower the background noise level by using Noise Reduction or AGC and keep the speech level the same , that burst intensity is directly proportional to the background noise level. If I raise the background noise level by reducing noise reduction or increasing AGC gain, the burst intensity is also increased.

I thought of one other condition to test. If I set the background noise to a level where I am seeing the sound burst. Then I lower the "Drive" level to zero. The burst intensity decreases with reduction of the power level. At zero power level the burst is nonexistent. This is transmitting on LSB.
Switching to AM and pressing PTT, the power level increases to about 33 watts and settles back to 27 watts. This is through a Bird wattmeter.
On LSB the power jumps to about 4 watts settling back to zero. With no background noise and power levels set to maximum, there is no jump of the initial power level. I surmise this would be correct with power levels reacting to an initial noise being transmitted. I'm performing these test's on 80 meters. The noise level is very low today compared to most days.

My head is spinning :roll:

I hope I described that clearly. I have yet to speak with anyone to see if they still hear a noise. My granddaughter is here (age 6) and I keep getting interrupted. I sincerely thank you for all the help and information you are providing. I'll be back.
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 5540
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:25 pm

Does the problem occur if you are running into a dummy load at normal RF output power levels?
K1LSB
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:25 pm

Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby K1LSB » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:11 am

To repeat, it sounds like your mic is picking up the audio coming from your speakers. Mute your speakers and test for burst again. If the burst goes away then the problem is as I have described.

I say that because I have the same problem. I mitigated mine by putting a value of 90 in the RF Delay in General Options tab.
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rbduck
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:49 pm

Re: Noise Burst on initial transmit

Postby rbduck » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:39 am

w-u-2-o wrote:Does the problem occur if you are running into a dummy load at normal RF output power levels?

Yes

K1LSB wrote:To repeat, it sounds like your mic is picking up the audio coming from your speakers. Mute your speakers and test for burst again. If the burst goes away then the problem is as I have described.

I say that because I have the same problem. I mitigated mine by putting a value of 90 in the RF Delay in General Options tab.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. That is exactly what it is. My question for you is, when you put 90 in the RF Delay on the General>Options tab, do you still see the burst on the screen? If it is still on the screen I assume it is not being transmitted?

I ask those questions because I have put 90 and I still saw the burst on the screen. I then put 200 in the sale place. The burst was still there. It was just not as intense. I have posted the shots below. As you can see there is not much difference in the tree conditions. My level from the speakers is at a level of what I normally hear. Hence, Yes that sound from the speakers and entering the microphone is what is being transmitted.

Edit: I did get the burst to completely go away. I had to put 300ms in the General>Options> RF Delay section. 250ms is where it begins to show back up.
Attachments
Volume.png
AGC and RX1 Settings into Dummy Load
Volume.png (11.37 KiB) Viewed 9116 times
Burst.png
0 in the General>Options> RF Delay Dummy Load
Burst.png (4.09 KiB) Viewed 9116 times
90.png
90 in the General>Options> RF Delay Dummy Load
90.png (6.47 KiB) Viewed 9116 times
200.png
200 in the General>Options> RF Delay Dummy Load
200.png (5.75 KiB) Viewed 9116 times
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11

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