NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

K9RX
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NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby K9RX » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:22 pm

For me at least - if I have either NB or NB2 turned on and transmit on SSB the displayed transmit waveform will jump around as I talk... vs. if I turn NB/NB2 off it is stable. My suggestion is for the software to turn off NB/NB2 while transmitting ... note this is independent of PureSignal and is however a direct result of having DUP turned on. If I turn DUP off it doesn't do this. (and if I'm not mistaken I want DUP on to see my signal while transmitting, to watch for any possible TX issues ... ).

If anyone is aware of some other condition, parameter selection, that will cause this and thus if unselected not cause it I'd be interested in hearing from you here.

Gary
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:17 pm

Gary,

I took a more critical look at this. If by "jump around" you mean that the PureSignal solution does not remain stable and that bursts of IMD are noted in the transmitted waveform, then yes, I can duplicate that problem here as well.

NR, NR2, SNB and ANF do not cause this, but NB and NB2 certainly do.

Note: with DUP turned off you are seeing a representation of the DAC data stream. With DUP turned on you are seeing the actual signal received on RX1 during TX. Normally this would be from either the internal coupler, and external coupler, or perhaps a small monitoring antenna, depending on your requirements.

73,

Scott
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby K9RX » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:35 pm

Yes - that's it - but I see it with PS off as well so I don't think there is any dependency there... note if I'm running both RXs and I turn RX2/NB2 on it doesn't do it - only with RX1-NB2.

I think the simplest solution would be to turn NB/NB2 off while transmitting ... or of course find what is causing it and correct that instead :D

I knew what DUP did - but hadn't considered it in these terms - does that suggest that with it on that that jumping around is REAL - i.e. being transmitted? I had assumed it was an aberration seen only in the pan display under these conditions due to the processing effects of NB/NB2.

thanks Scott,

Gary
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby Joe-W4WT » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:46 am

Hi Gary,

Glad you discovered this! I see it too and it is what pushed me back to version 1.9 for firmware from 2.2. After reading your experience, I took another look after loading v2.2 back and without the NB on, everything now looks just fine. Apparently I had NB on when I was experiencing what I thought was a PS problem. Now it appears it was just this anomaly and everything looks fine with v2.2. Hopefully Doug can put a fix in for the next release to make sure NB is off on xmit as I suspect this has caught a number of people.

73,

Joe W4WT
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:07 am

K9RX wrote:I knew what DUP did - but hadn't considered it in these terms - does that suggest that with it on that that jumping around is REAL - i.e. being transmitted? I had assumed it was an aberration seen only in the pan display under these conditions due to the processing effects of NB/NB2.
My believe is that what you see is actually being transmitted. Otherwise we would see the same artifacts on signals during RX. I don't have a way to confirm that because I don't have a second HF receiver to look at the signal with. I used to have a junky RTL SDR, but it died on me. I really need to get another for just this sort of thing. Do you have a second receiver that can be used to confirm this problem is actually on the transmitted signal?
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:16 pm

All of the developers who might look at this are on vacation until mid-Jan so we are all going to have to be very, very patient.
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby K9RX » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:05 pm

I'll see if i can get a friend to monitor for me. I'll of course report back here. I do have a second radio - a Yaesu FTdx5000 but I have removed its pan 'stuff' (LP-Pan and Xonar X7 and software) since I've gone 100% Anan ... I can however tune off frequency to see if I can hear any additional splatter there.

Gary
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby W2PA » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:27 pm

I tried this out this morning. When I turn on NB or NB2 I see extra background levels on both sides of the main signal in the panadapter, that pulsates with my voice. These appear as very broad "shoulders" on the main signal. The behavior is not there with NB/NB2 off. I presume this is what you guys are describing as jumping around, correct?

I listened to myself on another receiver with no antenna connected while transmitting at about 100W to a dipole on 80m. This is by no means a methodical measurement, but I listened on frequencies offset by 4 and 10 kHz from my transmitted signal in both directions on LSB and can hear no difference (or see any on the S-meter) with NB/NB2 on vs. off, even at the closer offset where I can hear splatter since the signal is so strong. PureSignal on/off made no difference (other than what it's supposed to do).
73,
Chris, W2PA
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby W2PA » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:44 pm

One more observation...
I brought up SDRConsole on my RTL dongle and tuned to my 80m frequency using the dongle's whip antenna. I again saw no difference in the spectrum with NB/NB2 on or off, while transmitting as in the previous post.
73,
Chris, W2PA
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby DO2ZA Erwin » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:56 pm

May be its a internal Problem with the Graphik UI from Anans/Powersdr ?? I have testet with my 200D V24, the Signal in my Yaesu with Panadapter looks clean.
Also other Station says my Signal clean.


73 Erwin
Anan 7000DLE MK2 black, P.2 v2.1.18, WIN 10, 10.0.18362 (1903), i7-7700 @3.60 Ghz, 2x Monitor 24"@144 Hz and 1x 32" Monitor @120 FPS for Thetis
K9RX
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby K9RX » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:32 pm

Chris: Yes - that is what I'm talking about.... based on your findings it's more than likely a result of processing the RX signal and how its handled/impacted with NB/2 on ... That's good to know. So "correcting" it would involve figuring out why its impacted with these on ... or since time is the critical factor here (so very little of it for the developers) maybe just do as I had requested/suggested which was to be sure NB/NB2 are turned off when transmitting, restored to their pre-TX state when RXing ...

Thanks Chris.

Gary
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Re: NB/NB2 and Pan display on SSB-TX jumps around

Postby Joe-W4WT » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:55 pm

I was working on EQ'ing a microphone yesterday and noticed the same "jumping" when I played back the audio I recorded. I record I&Q data. I didn't realize I had NB on when I started the playback but I did and indeed the same problem we are seeing on transmit shows up when playing back a recording if NB is on.

73,

Joe W4WT

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