Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

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Tony EI7BMB
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Mon May 01, 2017 12:01 pm

On the plus side too we will be able to use Simons SDR console as well as Thetis.
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby W1AEX » Mon May 01, 2017 4:27 pm

I would have to say that historically Apache Labs has been very honest and honorable with their customer base regarding support for the ANAN product line. If it turns out that there is a component deficiency that limits the Hermes based rigs to less than gigabit capability they will make it right. Note that the ANAN-10 and ANAN-100 have always been advertised as being gigabit capable as can be seen in the "Specifications and Highlights" section of the PDF brochure at the link below:

https://apache-labs.com/download_file.php?downloads_id=1001

It looks like about a 5 minute de-soldering and installation job to replace F-3 with whatever rating fuse would be appropriate to prevent the voltage drop to the FPGA. Of course it's about 30 minutes to get into the rig and 30 minutes to put it all back together, but that's part of the fun. After studying the specs it looks like this one (46 cents at Mouser) might be appropriate as the hold current is probably high enough although the trip current is rather high:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/MF-MSMF260-2/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiziRYNByQQcFVDHuBm7rGWll5yqyjpEdsveN3xXFGmXA%3d%3d

Then again, as John-AC0ZG mentioned in the F3 thread, when the trip current of the replacement re-settable fuse is +4A (or higher) is this any better than simply jumpering the existing F3 with a wire? I'd be very curious to know what was used in Angelia for the Cyclone IV FPGA.

73,

Rob W1AEX
"One thing I am certain of is that there is too much certainty in the world."
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby W1AEX » Mon May 01, 2017 7:06 pm

I downloaded the Hermes and Angelia parts lists ("Hermes production BOM" and the "Angelia production BOM") at the links below:

https://apache-labs.com/downloadsfiles/1014_HERMES_PROD_BOM_08112012.xls
Image

https://apache-labs.com/downloadsfiles/1010_ANGELIA_BOM.xls
Image

When I pasted the F3 part numbers from the Hermes and Angelia boards into the DigiKey search field it brought up the specs for the fuses used:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bourns-inc/MF-MSMF110-16-2/MF-MSMF110-16-2CT-ND/662846 Hermes F3
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=507-1513-1-nd

As previously mentioned by the person that Scott posted for in the "Hermes F3 wrong part" thread, the Hermes F3 resettable fuse has a current hold=1.1A and current trip=2.2A.

What I found with the Angelia board (Cyclone IV FPGA), the F3 resettable fuse has a current hold=3A and current trip=5.0A

I would expect that the current demands of the Cyclone IV of the Angelia would be greater than the Cyclone III used in the Hermes but at 1Gbps I'll bet the Cyclone III would probably need an F3 hold current pretty close to 3A to avoid operating in its transition zone where heat and resultant increased resistance becomes a factor that results in voltage drop and FPGA instability. Just speculation on my part but it seems reasonable. At any rate, it will be interesting to see what the final recommendations are for this issue.

Note that these parts are listed at Digikey in a quantity of 1 at a cost of around 50 cents +shipping. Also note that the Angelia F3 part is listed as being obsolete but browsing the Bel Fuse and Bourns resettable fuses there are others with the same form factor that have similar voltage, hold current, and trip current ratings.

73,

Rob W1AEX
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Mon May 01, 2017 8:10 pm

Great info Rob, thanks
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:18 pm

Just to update the thread,I did try running at 384 and two things I noticed are :

1. 384 khz does not give the same frequency coverage as 3 stitched receivers

2. Stitched receivers handle strong local signals much better IE they confine the noise floor jumping to the single receiver range so for example if there is a strong SSB station on 50.148 it has no effect on 50.276 whereas using 384 allows the noise floor jump to carry all the way up.
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:59 pm

Tony EI7BMB wrote:Just to update the thread,I did try running at 384 and two things I noticed are :

1. 384 khz does not give the same frequency coverage as 3 stitched receivers

Yes, if you are used to 3 x 192KHz. So run at 768KHz ;)

2. Stitched receivers handle strong local signals much better IE they confine the noise floor jumping to the single receiver range so for example if there is a strong SSB station on 50.148 it has no effect on 50.276 whereas using 384 allows the noise floor jump to carry all the way up.

This is interesting. The ADC data is identical in both cases. And the AGC settings are the same across the board. However, perhaps it is because the AGC is acting on separate, independent segments in the case of stitched receivers?

73,

Scott
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:19 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:
Tony EI7BMB wrote:Just to update the thread,I did try running at 384 and two things I noticed are :

1. 384 khz does not give the same frequency coverage as 3 stitched receivers

Yes, if you are used to 3 x 192KHz. So run at 768KHz ;)


Don't think its currently possible Scott as the new firmware for Hermes does not give Gigabit beacuse of the fuse issue

2. Stitched receivers handle strong local signals much better IE they confine the noise floor jumping to the single receiver range so for example if there is a strong SSB station on 50.148 it has no effect on 50.276 whereas using 384 allows the noise floor jump to carry all the way up.

w-u-2-o wrote:This is interesting. The ADC data is identical in both cases. And the AGC settings are the same across the board. However, perhaps it is because the AGC is acting on separate, independent segments in the case of stitched receivers?

73,

Scott


Perhaps or the Noise blanker maybe ? The other possibility of course is that i do not have it set up correctly :-)
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:27 pm

Don't think its currently possible Scott as the new firmware for Hermes does not give Gigabit beacuse of the fuse issue.

Darn! I forgot that was the case!
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:31 pm

I'm sure it will get sorted out in time . I'm really happy with the way PowerSDR works right now so its no problem for me at all.
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby W1AEX » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:55 pm

Hi Tony,

Before I sold my ANAN-100 the temptation to see how it would behave with the gigabit firmware was too great to pass up. So, I installed it and my ANAN-100 ran THETIS fine at 192 and 384 for hours at a time. I jumped it up to 768 and it received fine for an hour or so. Then I jumped up to 1536 and much to my surprise it ran fine there as well. I didn't linger at that setting for more than around 5 minutes and I did not TX with 768 or 1536 so I guess I was kind of a chicken in that respect. At any rate, I suppose each unit probably behaves differently and from what I understand if the voltage to the FPGA drops due to the under-rated fuse the result would probably be at worst a lock-up of OpenHSDR due to the FPGA running at voltage lower than spec.

Living on the edge of danger is what this hobby is all about right??!!!!

;)

Rob W1AEX
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:30 am

For sure Rob :-)

W1AEX wrote:Hi Tony,

Living on the edge of danger is what this hobby is all about right??!!!!

;)

Rob W1AEX
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:56 am

One other thought on this subject: In setup do you have Dither and Random enabled? These are ADC controls that, when both turned on, significantly improve the IP3 of the receiver. In the 384KHz or 768KHz cases that would be more important than ever.

73,

Scott
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Re: Hermes Protocol 2 firmware v10.3 released

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:37 pm

Thanks Scott, I did not have them enabled but will now and report back when I see some strong signals on 6m

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