Anan 10-E remote operation.

cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:20 am

I also read somewhere on the net that it takes windows 7 enterprise to pass audio both ways. Not sure on that one but gonna find out.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:29 am

cleanrf wrote:I also read somewhere on the net that it takes windows 7 enterprise to pass audio both ways. Not sure on that one but gonna find out.

Not true. I've used Win7Pro on both ends very successfully. Same for Win10Pro on both ends. I've also used combinations of Win7Pro and Win10Pro successfully. I can't personally speak to other configurations, but everything I've read says that you only need a "pro" or "enterprise" version at the server end.
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:09 pm

That is good to know. I'm going to do some more digging this afternoon.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:26 pm

Scott, how recently have you use a windows 7 pro machine as a host with microphone support allowing audio redirection to client machine? I am being told by Microsoft that I have to have ultimate or enterprise on the host side to have microphone/ recorded audio.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:17 am

Within the last year I've executed successful remote operation with bidirectional RDP audio using the following combinations:

Win7Pro client - Win7Pro server
Win7Pro client - Win10Pro server
Win10Pro client - Win10Pro server

Only on the Win10Pro client did I have to make the registry change.
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:03 pm

Thank you. I will try to acquire a win 7 pro laptop to test.
In your server machines do they just have onboard sound cards?
Last edited by cleanrf on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:02 pm

My server machines have always had motherboard audio plus my venerable Behringer UMC202 interface.
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:37 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:My server machines have always had motherboard audio plus my venerable Behringer UMC202 interface.


So have you ever tried audio redirection without the behringer?
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:57 am

Been busy but had some free time to do a few things, I upgraded my windows 7 pro machine to windows 10 pro and can now make skype calls via remote desktop from my win 10 home laptop. I was not able to do this before the upgrade. The issue I have now is that when trying to open powersdr from remote client powersdr crashes. If I turn of "record from this computer" on the client laptop powersdr opens fine. I have spent 20 minutes or so having this issue and will spend more time tomorrow trying to solve the issue I just wanted to keep everyone updated. I also purchased the behringer umc202hd new in the box from a friend for $10 so I have that in my arsenal as well.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:27 pm

Great news!

You need to go back to my very first reply to you at the beginning of this topic:

If you are using RDP, and have got audio moving properly between the client and server in both directions, then you need to solve the problem of getting audio from the VAC interface to the remote client. You would think you could just assign PowerSDR to use the default audio devices on the server, but when the RDP session is instantiated those devices change to devices called "Remote Audio". This drives PowerSDR crazy and can cause it to not work, crash, or even not start. PowerSDR is insanely sensitive to changes in audio device states :(

To solve the PowerSDR issues with the RDP instantiated Remote Audio device, use Voicemeeter Banana (VMB) to insulate PowerSDR from the "real world". Point the PowerSDR VAC connections to VMB, assigned Remote Audio to a VMB channel, then make the connections in VMB. It's a minor complexity, but it solves the problem quite neatly.

In VMB I use Hardware Input 2 for the Remote Audio recording device, and I use Output A2 for the Remote Audio playback device. These can only be assigned during an RDP session with remote audio enabled since that is the only time they "exist". However, once assigned in VMB the settings will "stick" regardless of the status of an RDP connection.

I generally leave PowerSDR started and running before I leave for somewhere where I might want to remote operate from so I don't have to hassle with it via RDP. However, if you need to start or restart PowerSDR over RDP, then you have to go through this nasty gyration:

1. Quit your RDP session, if necessary.
2. Start a new RDP session with remote audio disabled.
3. Start PowerSDR.
4. Quit the RDP session.
5. Start a new RDP session with remote audio enabled. Click "restart audio engine" in VMB and change your VMB routes if they are not already setup for remote op's.

73,

Scott
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:46 pm

I have vm banana installed and the same usb headset you recommended, I will change some settings tonight when I get in and see what happens. I have never tried to start powersdr on the server side, only client side. Thank you for the reply. I will report back.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:52 pm

I should add that VMB must be started BEFORE PowerSDR. I set VMB to automatically start at boot time, minimized to the system tray, and that way never have to worry about this.
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:16 pm

On another not, I have seen it mentioned that people use skype to pass microphone audio from remote machine to server side machine. I assume they are referring to doing this while operating the radio remotely, if so I am not sure I see a way to do this.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:15 am

Yes, that is correct, some people have used Skype to move audio. They set up Skype on both the shack and the remote computer. Then they use some kind of screen sharing program that does not support audio, like VNC, to obtain display and control of the shack computer on the remote computer. Finally, they make a Skype call from one computer to the other, and answer it on the shack computer using the VNC connection.

You have to use VAC or VMB or the like to connect Skype to PowerSDR to move the audio.

I found all that to be as complex and not nearly as elegant as just letting RDP do the entire job.

73,

Scott
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:11 am

I am able to control the radio from remote computer, hear audio on remote computer but am still tinkering with getting mic audio to pass from remote computer to server computer. I have not spend a lot of time trying to do this as I have been busy with work etc. I am using VMB and the server machine and am able use the usb headset on the server machine and transit audio and hear receive audio through headphones using VAC. I will have some free time tomorrow night and will try to get this working. I have almost completed my 4 antenna coax relay, lightning disconnect small electrical panel that has each circuit relay controlled. All of this using a couple of Velleman VM201 ethernet relay cards.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:44 pm

It sounds like you are very close to getting it working. It's probably a simple problem with levels or routing. I leave the levels in the Windows Mixer on the server side set to max., all levels in VMB and PowerSDR set to 0dB, and adjust the mic level using the Windows Mixer at the client end.
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:09 am

I finally got a break from my daily grind to address this again. I am able to remotely operate inside of my own network. To get mic audio to flow from remote laptop to server PC I simply clicked the power button while operate remotely and it worked. My next phase which I will attempt to address tomorrow is operating from outside my network. I will first attempt using my cell phone as a hotspot for laptop then I will go down the road to a fellow hams house to test it out there.
Scott you mentioned a VPN router. Do you have a suggestion of a good one I could use?

Thanks
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:42 am

I am using a Ubiquiti Edgerouter, which is an expensive and complex (and high performance) bit of kit. So I'm not necessarily recommending it unless you are familiar with Cisco command line interfaces or similar.

However, I have always been partial to Netgear products. Prior to the Edgerouter I used a number of their VPN capable small office routers. They have now extended their support for VPN to their home/personal line of routers. A quick look at the Netgear website has the X4S Wi-Fi router catching my eye. Not the least expensive router, but it looks blazingly fast and it supports OpenVPN, which is really great.

So I'd recommend taking a closer look at the higher end Netgear stuff. Don't forget that you will also need to either have a static IP on your internet connection (usually an extra cost option with your provider) or you will need to set up a dynamic DNS service on the router (I'm sure all the Netgear routers with VPN support this). I use Dyn for my dynamic DNS service.

Keep us posted on your progress!

73!

Scott
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:19 pm

Thanks for the reply. I will let you know.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:55 am

Ok, so everything works well inside the lan, great audio, receive etc. This is with the server machine and the laptop both wirelessly connected to the router and the radio connected directly to the server machine . After calling ISP and having them give me a static IP which with them any allows me to open whatever port I choose, they do not allow this without paying a few $ extra for a static which I wanted anyway. I am able to control the radio completely and here and transmit audio both ways etc. The issue I am having is with choppy receive and transmit audio. I can for example play youtube video using RDP and other than a little lag in the video the audio sounds fine. This is my connection speeds at both server side and remotely. 10-25 ms max ping times at both locations and 12-15 mbps down and 1.5 or so mbps up. I have not tried it somewhere using a blazing fast internet connection on the remote end but I don't think that is the issue. I am using VM banana and MME drivers. I have tried shrinking the sdr window and turning panadapter off with no change. I have changed the buffer settings in the audio tab of the powersdr and also no changes that I can notice. Any suggestions?
Thanks for any help.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:27 pm

First of all, that's great news overall! Congrat's on getting it all up and running, even with the audio glitches.

I normally operate remotely on some pretty poor internet connections (the typical free hotel type stuff). With the PSDR window made as small as possible, the panadapter set to 15Hz update rate, and the waterfall at a matching update rate (64mS) I see less than 2Mbit/s down and only about 200Kbit/s up, relative to the remote PC. You can track this using ResMon. Note that this is essentially identical to the Flex Maestro, for anyone that might be wondering.

You may want to confirm your available up/downlink speeds at the remote PC. You might also try using WDM-KS drivers instead of MME.

73,

Scott
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:24 pm

Thanks I will give this a try.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:06 am

Changing the driver type in psdr vac1 to WDM-KS gets rid of the choppy receive audio. I tried a few different settings and could not get transmit audio to work remotely using WDM-KS. I am also very limited to input and output choices in VAC 1. I only have Voicemeeter aux vaio, VB-audio point and Voicemeeter vaio in both input and out. I tried it a few ways and do not get mic audio while remote. Any suggestions?

Thanks
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:37 am

Try using ASIO between PSDR and VMB.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:22 pm

Looks like I got the mic working remotely but I am having issues with the speaker playback using ASIO driver. In VM banana hardware inputs I do not show any thing with a ASIO driver I do however show AISO driver options in the hardware out pull down. In psdr VAC 1 of the radio it seems the only way to get speakers to work or even headphone receive audio is when using MME in psdr VAC 1. I may be wrong and I will double check this evening when I get home.
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:01 pm

cleanrf wrote:Looks like I got the mic working remotely but I am having issues with the speaker playback using ASIO driver. In VM banana hardware inputs I do not show any thing with a ASIO driver I do however show AISO driver options in the hardware out pull down. In psdr VAC 1 of the radio it seems the only way to get speakers to work or even headphone receive audio is when using MME in psdr VAC 1. I may be wrong and I will double check this evening when I get home.



In other words there is no way to have MME for speakers/ headphones and for output and VB-Audio as and input when using ASIO in psdr VAC tab, speakers/ headphones is not available. Any sugestions? You should send me a paypal address so I can pay you for your help :-)

EDIT:

I can get VAC working on the server machine using headset. My setting in psdr vac 1 are Driver: ASIO, Input : Voicemeeter Virtual ASIO, output: Voicemeeter Virtual ASIO.
VMB setting are hardware input 1; MME: Headset microphone (Microsoft lifechat lx-3000).
VMB hardware out A1: MME: Headset earphone (Microsoft lifechat lx-3000)

I power down the psdr, open remote desktop, set both VMB input and out to remote audio, power on PSDR and get pop ups from psdr.
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:34 pm

You have to connect the Remote Audio devices to VMB, and you have to connect PSDR to VMB, then make the connections between them in VMB. We've been over this point twice in this thread already. Now this is a third time. See my post in this thread with date/time Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:27 am.

Thus using ASIO is not an impediment, as you have to point both the PSDR VAC input and output at VMB.

73,

Scott
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:28 am

Update. I finally got everything working. It seems one of the issues I was having was with a sample rate setting. I had to change a sample rate setting in psdr to 44100 hz. It seems no matter what I did I kept getting a pop up warning of wrong sample rate. The hardware out of VM banana is 44100 hz and I could not change it and still have VAC audio. That is with psdr using asio drivers and pointing to VM banana virtual asio in and output. The problem I am having now is when using the 3000 headset on the server machine with VAC settings that work with that setup I get great audio reports. If I change to the settins listed above to work RDP I get audio reports of choppy and an echo sound referring to my transmit audio. The receive audio sounds normal even when I am on a crappy cell phone connection using RDP. Any suggestion on what may be causing the choppy echo sound?

Thanks
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:42 am

I would bet that the reason you have choppy audio is because you are not running 48KHz on everything you can.

On my implementation, I am forced to use 44.1KHz on the remote headset and the RDP Remote Audio devices, and the hardware in and out assignments for the Remote Audio devices in VMB. There is something about RDP Remote Audio devices that forces this. I've tried to change it to 48KHz but have been unsuccessful so far. However it hasn't seemed to matter.

More importantly, between VMB and PowerSDR I use ASIO at 48KHz (or sometimes 96KHz). This does seem to matter.

To get VMB to run at the desired sample rate on the VAIO and Aux interface channel strips, you must go to the Windows Start Menu, scroll down to the VB Audio folder, open the IO and Aux IO control panels, and select the desired sampling rate, which again should be 48KHz. You will get a message that you have to restart the PC. Before you do, go into the Windows Sound Control Panel, find each instance of a VMB related device, both playback and recording, open its advanced properties, and explicitly set it to 48KHz. Then restart your PC.

After the PC restarts you should be able to connect between VMB and PowerSDR at 48KHz with no difficulty. Again, I'm betting that this is the problem and should cure the choppiness.

73,

Scott
cleanrf
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Re: Anan 10-E remote operation.

Postby cleanrf » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:37 pm

I will double check when I get home. You scenario with 44100 hz sample rate sounds exactly like the issue I am having.

These are screenshots of the current server side and remote side VM settings and the VAC1 settings in PSDR.

I will look through the windows sound settings again and also through virtual IO cable cable control panel settings when I get back home this evening but I believe I have all of the settings at 48000 hz. You will notice in VM banana the hardware out is 44100 hz. I cannot figure out how to change that. The choices on the server side of VM banana are from me trying different options until I got something to work remotely.
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