Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Can't talk to your radio? This is the place to ask!
Ken
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 pm

Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby Ken » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:25 am

Ok I will try to keep this short as possible but...here goes...
After installing Metis_hermans_protocol_2_v10.8_pre4.rbf for the Anan 100 and udgrading to 2.6.9. 1/25/20, I would have drop outs or the software would lock up.
I found it did not lock up as much on another PC that is sits next to one that does. So I switched the Anan to the other PC and it seem to run okay.
Last night we had a storm with some lightning. I unplugged all antennas. Much later today after waking up and not going back to sleep from waking up at 2 AM this morning, I decide to play radio! I was having the lock up issues again on both PCs, so it appeared.
So I decide to go back to the November firmware of 2.6.9 protocol 2. As soon as I clicked onto the power button I would see the Panadapter with a little raise of signal for a quick second and then the whole Panadaptor would disappear. So being frustrated I went back and forth with firmware with no joy.

Now for the revealing of my dumbness!

I had forgotten I had the antennas disconnected from the night before and immediately thought it was an issue with the software locking up again. But before I realized the antennas were not connected, I decide to pulled the cat6 jumper from the front of the Anan and reinsert it thinking maybe its a bad connection. What happen next I lost all connections to the Anan.
Also when I would push on the power button I would here a sound in my speakers that more less indicated to me that a relay was clicking every time I turned it on. Now I do not get the sound through my speakers or what I think was the relay clicking. I do get a solid green light on the left side of the cat6 connection (rj45), with a short burst of a green light on the right side of the cat6 connection (RJ45). But the green led on the right is not blinking fast as it would if it had a tcp/ip connection.

Being very frustrated over this situation and being up since 2 AM this morning is a feeling I wish I just stayed in bed even if I couldn't sleep!
I hope someone has more patience then me that perhaps could give me an idea what to do next. Beside going to sleep!

Thank you for your time,
Ken
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 2076
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:07 am

Not a Thetis problem, moving to the networking sub-forum...
Ken
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby Ken » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:20 pm

Hello Scott,

Sorry for posting in the incorrect location.

Ok I have the jumper on j12 and Boot Loader does recognize the the Mac number, so I take it that its communication
to the Anan.

However when trying to load the firmware Metis_hermans_protocol_2_v10.8_pre5.rbf I get this message...

Pehellope has been found! This RBF does not match protcol_2_v10.8_pre5.rbf

So I am still in the dark and the Anan100 will not communicate with Thetis v2.6.9 1/25/20

I have tried to set the Ip to all zero's in Boot Loader for the dynamic ip settings. I have also tried a static Ip with the mac address
in reserve with a particular Ip address with in my router and then set up a static Ip in the Anan software with no joy.

Thanks for any help as it is needed !

Ken
WB4AM
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 2076
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:42 pm

Ken wrote:Ok I have the jumper on j12 and Boot Loader does recognize the the Mac number, so I take it that its communication
to the Anan.
Yes, that's good.
However when trying to load the firmware Metis_hermans_protocol_2_v10.8_pre5.rbf
I assume you mean "Metis_Hermes_Protocol_2_v10.8_pre5.rbf"
I get this message...

Pehellope has been found! This RBF does not match protcol_2_v10.8_pre5.rbf
I've never seen or heard of that error message so I am a bit at a loss to figure out your problem. Perhaps someone else that is reading this might know?

As for IP addresses, those don't matter to bootloader. But I would set it to 0.0.0.0 for when you get this working.
Ken
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby Ken » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:54 pm

Good Morning Scott,

You amaze me how fast you reply back sometimes beside your wealth of information.

Thank you by the way.

I have also tired to ping the Anan and it does not see it. As mentioned before
I used to hear this clicking or at least a slight static clicking sound in my speakers when turning the Anan on, I do not
get this sound any more at all.

Its strange that boot loader can connect but yet I cannot ping the Anan. I hear you when you say Boot Loader doesn't
care about the Ip address, but it has to be communicating somehow through the router and the cat6 cable. So I have the
idea thinking that I should be able to ping it as well???

Again thank you for your reply back.

Ken
WB4AM
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 2076
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:47 pm

When I'm around and not busy I can reply fast. This morning just happens to be a good time.

There are a few reasons why ping is not working. If you are in bootloader mode that mode does not support ping. If you are in normal mode it does support ping, but if the firmware is messed up because of a botched loading process, or because it's the wrong firmware, or any other reason that causes the FPGA to not properly boot into normal mode, then the unit will also not respond to a ping.

Don't forget that every time you move that jumper you have to power cycle the unit so the FPGA boots up into the correct mode.

Bootloader does not use IP. It uses raw Ethernet frames and never goes above Layer 2 in the OSI Protocol stack. This was considered an advantage by the developers in that, if you had half-bricked a unit and could not get it into normal mode, the bootloader mode was so primitive it could operate under almost any conditions. And, by not requiring IP, TCP or UDP, once could reset the IP address without knowing it. Unfortunately, because the unit advertises an illegal MAC address in bootloader mode it will not work with any Layer 2 or Layer 3 managed switch, and also has problems with certain un-managed ("dumb") switches as well.
DH1KLM
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby DH1KLM » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:53 pm

Sounds like your Hermes Board is not recognized correctly by HPSDRBootloader.
Which version is your HPSDRBootloader? Latest on Github is V 2.0.4.4.
Have you also tried the web browser based HPSDRProgrammer v0.2.7?

https://github.com/TAPR/OpenHPSDR-Protocol1-Programmers/releases/tag/v2.0.10
https://github.com/TAPR/OpenHPSDR-Protocol2-Programmers/releases

Have you tried to go back to Protocol 1 as well?
73 de Sigi / DH1KLM
Ken
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby Ken » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:00 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:When I'm around and not busy I can reply fast. This morning just happens to be a good time.

There are a few reasons why ping is not working. If you are in bootloader mode that mode does not support ping. If you are in normal mode it does support ping, but if the firmware is messed up because of a botched loading process, or because it's the wrong firmware, or any other reason that causes the FPGA to not properly boot into normal mode, then the unit will also not respond to a ping.

Don't forget that every time you move that jumper you have to power cycle the unit so the FPGA boots up into the correct mode.

Bootloader does not use IP. It uses raw Ethernet frames and never goes above Layer 2 in the OSI Protocol stack. This was considered an advantage by the developers in that, if you had half-bricked a unit and could not get it into normal mode, the bootloader mode was so primitive it could operate under almost any conditions. And, by not requiring IP, TCP or UDP, once could reset the IP address without knowing it. Unfortunately, because the unit advertises an illegal MAC address in bootloader mode it will not work with any Layer 2 or Layer 3 managed switch, and also has problems with certain un-managed ("dumb") switches as well.


Well I think everyone would agree you do a great job of getting back with an answer one way or the other, so no one should be complaining!
In my opinion and I think I can echo for most if not all, the community would be at a lost without you, so don't go any wheres!!!

I did not know about recycling the rig after using Boot Loader, however I recycling it anyway because when removing the j12 jumper
with a tiny pair of pliers, I don't want to mistakenly come in contact with anything else on the board with those pliers so I power the rig
down just to be safe. Unfortunately this is not the reason for not being able to ping the Anan, but I certainly appreciate the info and
of course your advice,

Thank you Scott.

DH1KLM wrote:Sounds like your Hermes Board is not recognized correctly by HPSDRBootloader.
Which version is your HPSDRBootloader? Latest on Github is V 2.0.4.4.
Have you also tried the web browser based HPSDRProgrammer v0.2.7?

https://github.com/TAPR/OpenHPSDR-Protocol1-Programmers/releases/tag/v2.0.10
https://github.com/TAPR/OpenHPSDR-Protocol2-Programmers/releases

Have you tried to go back to Protocol 1 as well?


Yes I have tried two different Boot Loaders just in case. And as far as the Browser base Programmer, this is what I have always used for a while now. However I cannot get pass the first drop down box when it ask for what hardware to connect to. (first parameter that it comes to anyway)
Thank you for your reply as it is appreciated.
It might come down to sending the Anan out for repairs, but I am trying everything possible before hand.

I wish I had a backup Anan 100 [url]board[/url] only so I could swap it out and then just send the board in for repairs.

Well back to the bench unfortunately!

Thank you both.

73 Ken
Ken
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby Ken » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:26 pm

Ok first I must say...

Stupid is as Stupid does !!!
I wouldn't admit to this but it is only fair to do so!!!

My biggest stupid action so far! I was placing the firmware in the Boot Loader software at the bottom of the window
where the Jtag firmware belonged. Being frustrated I saw the word firmware at the bottom and so that is where
I was pointing the firmware to go.

I apologize for my dumbness and putting you guys through this wasted time.

However I now have communication with the Anan and Thetis, but my receive is barely there. No signal at all on the panadapter and I cannot
hear any stations. If I go to the broadcast section I can pick up faintly a local station.

At one point I removed a ribbon cable at the front of the Anan 100 that connects to the amp board above. I had also disconnect at one point
the sma cable in the back left corner looking from the front bending over the rig and looking at the back left corner. This is inside with the back plate off. It has a yellow band around it with the number 5 stamped on it. I placed it on the right sma female connector out of the three on the left
side as being in front of the rig bending over the top of the rig and looking at the back left corner.

I may have to post in another location at this point but I have no idea where.

I am still in the woods but I am seeing some light through all of this!

Again a Big Thank You for your help.

Ken
WB4AM
Don't upgrade any software when you have been awake for at lease 17 hours or more with no sleep. (that was yesterday)
Plenty of sleep for today!
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 2076
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:02 pm

Just about everything you need to know about how to load firmware is contained within the first three "tacked" topics here:

viewforum.php?f=18

As for how to put your ANAN-100 back together again, unfortunately I don't have one to look at, so it's tough for me to guide you.

However, you may want to go back to the previous version of firmware, or all the way back to Protocol 1 and PowerSDR, just to see if it's a firmware problem or a hardware problem.
Ken
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby Ken » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:09 pm

Hello Scott,

Thank you for your reply. I read all I could skimming through a lot of it but I did absorb the highlights to
help give me more understanding here and there. I decide to switch to another PC again and this other PC appeared to allow Thetis and
any networking needed to work together. However I thought the receive signals were still down just a little, so I thought I would do a database
reset. After the database reset this other PC acted as the other with no receive again.

I started thinking if I could just jack into the antenna output on the Anan's transceiver board only, then maybe I can narrow it down
if the Ana board or if the 100 watt Pa board only is the issue. After taking the Anan totally apart, I stuck a very thin wire into the SMA of the output of the Ana board and stuck the other end into the BNC connector of the coax that would come from my input of my amp. All the signals came up where they should be. I also had a whole bunch of other odd interference signals due to no shield between the two board. At least I now I thought I was on to something. Even the broadcast stations were booming in!

Also the very short SMA cable coming from the Anan board going to the amp board, on the amp side, the connector I thought was to tight.
I decide to use one of the longer cables that tie into the back plate. One end is male and the other is female. Since this was all I had to work with, I used it along with the short one since I could connect one end of the short cable to the female connector of the long cable. I didn't think I was going to prove anything by doing this since I was still using the short cable and making it even longer I thought it might even cause some more issues. (I really wanted to use another cable other then the short one) With the Anan being a part, there was no way of connecting that short cable by itself along with all the other connections that needed to be connected including the amp board. I wanted to test the Anan with everything connected even though I had receive with bypassing the amp board.

To my surprise everything started to work! I even tried it on the first PC after deleting any files associated with Thetis and then reinstalled it.
Both PCs were now working. So I decide to put everything back together slow and very carefully. After I had gotten it all together, both PCs were still working, imagine that!

The only conclusions to all of this, I do have several thoughts that come to mind.

Its possible something in the firmware and perhaps Thetis, both had gotten tangle between their selves during the upgrade from one to the other. Another thought I had since I had to take off the front plate housing of the Anan and slide the main transceiver board toward the front
to access the Boot Loader jumper, I realized this places stress on that short SMA jumper coming from the Anan output. Also when this stress occurs it pulls on the cable's connector on the other end where it screws onto the Amp board and causes it to tighten down if the 90 degree connector is on the side where it would tighten if the cable was to be pulled on. In other words instead of the 90 degree connector behaving as a swivel connector it would actually tighten against itself instead of slipping within itself and the SMA nut. So I am just putting this out there when taking the Anan apart or at lease for the 100 model and perhaps the D model and even the 200 model, one must be careful in this respect.

One last thing that someone might be able to explain. When I was up grading Thetis, it never went through its paces where it shows all of the files being loaded, and also it usually takes a while to complete. When I was upgrading either PC it would install Thetis in no time at all as if it was not a full new install. After searching for any files that would be placed here and there in different directories and deleting them all, then the software would load all the files and take a long time to finish.

So at the end of it all, I probably created all of this unnecessary work, so it appears. So I am trying to understand all of this to help prevent it from happening again!

Without everyone's help here on the forum and those off of the forum it would had been even more painful!

So thank you to everyone who gave a helping hand.
Its nice to see signals again and have everything working.
And I am using Thetis 2.6.9 1/25/20 with 10.8 !!!

What a relief!

73
Ken
WB4AM
User avatar
W1AEX
Posts: 273
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:17 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA
Contact:

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby W1AEX » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:08 pm

Hi Ken,

I'm not sure if this is what you are referring to about the installation process but if you are installing a new version over a previous version the FFT calculations will not run again as long as the wdspWisdom file is still present in the windows "Users" path located in the OpenHPSDR/Thetis folder. This is normal and doing the calculations again is not necessary after the first time unless you make some major changes to your computer hardware that might have a major impact on its performance.

The internal SMA cables are quite fragile and other ANAN users have run into problems when the cables are stressed or pulled on while sliding the mainboard forward to access the jumpers. As you surmised, this could very well be what was causing the RX problems you experienced. Sounds like you have it running it right again, so that's a good thing!

73, Rob W1AEX
"One thing I am certain of is that there is too much certainty in the world."
Ken
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 pm

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby Ken » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:46 pm

W1AEX wrote:Hi Ken,

I'm not sure if this is what you are referring to about the installation process but if you are installing a new version over a previous version the FFT calculations will not run again as long as the wdspWisdom file is still present in the windows "Users" path located in the OpenHPSDR/Thetis folder. This is normal and doing the calculations again is not necessary after the first time unless you make some major changes to your computer hardware that might have a major impact on its performance.

The internal SMA cables are quite fragile and other ANAN users have run into problems when the cables are stressed or pulled on while sliding the mainboard forward to access the jumpers. As you surmised, this could very well be what was causing the RX problems you experienced. Sounds like you have it running it right again, so that's a good thing!

73, Rob W1AEX


Hello Rob,

Thank you for your reply back and educating me about the FFT calculations. Yes those are the file I was talking about. I thought they had something to do with the Wisdom files as I remembered in the past that the Wisdom files had to be deleted before loading a newer version of OpenHPSDR.

Nice to know that this procedure does not need to be executed as I was thinking this might had been part of my issue.

I am not 100% sold on the idea of that short SMA cable coming from the transceiver board when I first had the issue up grading, but I am 100% sold on the idea that it was this cable after I dissembled the Anan and started to put it back together when I was having the issue.

What I did find, if the back of the cable just behind the connector was not held in line with the nut of the connector while turning the nut of the connector, the center pin would not be correctly aligned. I would install the connector having the the thought it was being screwed on correctly because the nut would turn very freely and smoothly until it would bottom out, just to find that the Anan still did not have any receive.
So of course I would remove the connector and try again. Those connectors are so small and close to one another as well as being close to the mounting plate of the transceiver board that one has to be be very patience placing them on. (As well as not to place any stress on them)

Anyway it is working as it should so far with the latest firmware and with the latest Thetis.

It is awesome to have such great support from everyone here, without it I don't believe Apache Labs could survive.

Again thank you Rob, I appreciate you.

73
Ken
WB4AM
User avatar
W1AEX
Posts: 273
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:17 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA
Contact:

Re: Cannot connect to Anan 100 from any PC

Postby W1AEX » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:27 pm

Glad I could offer some ideas Ken. I enjoyed looking at your QRZ page and laughed when you mentioned Joe W3GMS as someone who has been helpful to you with your heavy metal equipment over the years. Joe has always been a great help to me as well, especially when I was building my 4-400 x 833 rig back in the late 70's and early 80's. He knows his stuff! By the way, none of my big iron rigs can perform as well as the ANAN in the audio department with the AM mode. Not..even...close!!!!

73, Rob W1AEX
"One thing I am certain of is that there is too much certainty in the world."

Return to “Network Connections & Network Hardware”