PS2 Green Indicator

Dennis
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PS2 Green Indicator

Postby Dennis » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:35 pm

Hello Scott, Dennis vk4sx, I have been using Thetis 2.8.7 since Oct 2020, error free and very reliable, switched gear off and rebooted Optiplex
yerterday, this morning I do not see the PS2 RE/YELLOW, GREEN GREEN Indicators lighting up,
ATT on TX checked, RXBYPASS Checked,
7000 TX alone with RXBYPASS Uncheck3ed Checked NO red / yellow Indicators, DUP & PS2 are active,
check RXBYPASS, engage amplifier NO PS2 indicators at all, when I go to Linearity PS2 pure Signal is not functioning
I Imported a Fresh working pre-saved Data base, STILL no joy,
NO indicators and PS2 not switching on?
been error free for 6 months?
short version PS2 not engaging whether RX Bypass on TX active or not?
would like top track down before re-installing later sw etc

Cheers
Dennis vk4sx
Dennis
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby Dennis » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:42 pm

Scott I am going to answer my own question here, I have never seen this happen before, " NO PS2 " Indications
so I shut pc off, removed DC from 7000, took dog for a walk,
returned, fired up PC with Imported DB, applied DC and started 7000,
no PS2 Indications at first then the PS2 green green, red yellow appeared?
any ideas?
time for a SW FW Update maybe?
I had powered 7k down twice with no change,

thank you in advance
Dennis vk4sx
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w-u-2-o
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:06 am

It's a mystery, Dennis. But you should upgrade to Thetis 2.8.11.
K9RX
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby K9RX » Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:18 pm

There are numerous threads re puresignal - this one seems closest to what I'm experiencing so I'll continue it. The rig here is the 8000, coupler the Xytronic. Prot1.

I've seen and mentioned this issue previously where Puresignal will at times not work. The button is pushed - but nothing happens, no correction. The signal is clearly 'sans puresignal' in IMD products. Previously, when using 3.4.9, I first had to close the program and restart it for it to come back on. Then I found out through experimentation that if I went to Advanced and changed the Tint value from the default of 0.5 to 1.1 and back again it would work. This SEEMS to happen after having gone to SPLIT but I'm not 100% sure.

Now I'm on 2.9.03/Thetis... and Puresignal seems to work well - but this same problem appeared again, however this time changing Tint did nothing. I had to close the program and restart it.

This happened yesterday - again - again after I had left SPLIT mode ... so I slid the ATT up and down - no change to anything. The dim green light on the FB indicator is on - of course, PS is on - DUP is on as always. I went to the control panel, I put the amp in standby to just use the rig... As I'm doing this I'm speaking into the mic (on a high frequency of course where I'm not going to interfere with anyone). I changed Tint and IT LOCKED UP! In Transmit mode. I was using the footswitch - and stepping on it and releasing it did nothing (and no it isn't the switch). After a few seconds of staring at things - the program disappeared leaving the rig in TX (Id = 0.6A). I restarted the program - it could not find the rig when I hit start. I closed it and tried this again just to be clear. Same results. I was left with only one option - shut down the radio even though again it was in transmit. This worked.

This was quite troubling. I'll try to carefully document this. I suspect there may be some connection to SPLIT mode prior ... which might help explain why this isn't reported by many, SPLIT being less frequently used except by DXers.

NOTE: I'll try to keep track of when/how this happens, where PS isn't working (the lockup just happened this one time, so far, yesterday) - it is not common - maybe every few days and thus not easy to keep a focus on what I'm doing. And it doesn't do it after every use of SPLIT (if even there is a relationship there). Most of the time it works - but now, seeing it lock up in TX, that is a bit worrisome. Had the amp been engaged - I'm not sure how powering down a rig that is on TX will impact an expensive SS amp.

Gary
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sv1jso
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby sv1jso » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:54 pm

Three days ago I was in a qso with Pure Signal enabled and Diversity enabled. Casual talk not too many mics. After an hour and during tx everything froze. Power off was working on the program but when I power on the software nothing on the waterfall. Restart computer the same. Restart 7000 the same. Seems that the database was off. Resetting database the same. Pure signal not functioning at all and when enabling diversity everything was frozen. Hmmm maybe was the firmware. Another restart on the 7000 and everything was ok. Restore original database and everything was ok too.
This was the first time that I had a lock up like that. I t seems for me that is a timing issue somewhere in the firmware. So next time that you have a puresignal lock up check if diversity is working maybe we can find more on the problem.

Regards
Mike
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w-u-2-o
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:36 pm

Once upon a time there were some bugs in Thetis regarding PureSignal, such that it might become inactive, or might require an off-to-on cycle of the PS-A button to get it going again. These have been fixed since 2.9.0.x came out. If you aren't running the most recent version (it doesn't have to be the beta) do consider upgrading.

Another very typical problem is not hitting 0dB ALC often enough. I recommend adjusting drive levels so that, using the ALC Group meter mode, you see between +1 and +3 on peaks.

Changing TINT from the default 0.5 setting is not recommended. I'm embarrassed to say that setting was my brainstorm, but it never worked out well. It is intended to allow operation such that levels just slightly under 0dB ALC will kick off a PS measurement. This always has worse performance than the default.

These problems could very well be firmware related. The surest way to determine that is to NOT quit and restart Thetis, NOT restart the PC, but ONLY restart the hardware (power cycle the ANAN). This will cause a "power button" press to be necessary, but if you find the "power button" not working by itself, but only in concert with a power cycle of the hardware, that definitely points the finger at the firmware.
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby K9RX » Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:35 pm

Scott, At least for me I did note that I am using the latest release.

I'm convinced this is an issue with SPLIT. I note there is another anomaly when using CW SPLIT. If I start afresh - and I change from my 3 bandstacks: CW, SSB, DIG - the MON button is properly lit up for CW only. It is off for the other 2 stack (mode) selections.

If I go to CW SPLIT and use it - then turn SPLIT off (as well as MULTI RX which is always on when using SPLIT), and now go to another bandstack (mode), SSB or DIG, MON is left on! I have to manually turn it off.

I believe what is happening is when doing CW SPLIT PS is 'inactivated' in whatever way it is when using CW - and then left that way when leaving SPLIT. The "action" is the same ... if I'm on CW the FB light on the far bottom right is a dim green ... PSA button is on, ATT is at 31. And I have no issues (in the past when using 3.4.9 this would occasionally cause the ATT value to go to 0 and I'd get an ADC overload warning). If I do the SPLIT action noted above this is the same. So I go to USB - the FB light is dim green. The ATT is 31, the AMP VIEW shows nothing. There's no correction going on.

Gary
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Apr 22, 2022 1:55 pm

I had a little trouble following your sequence. However the way you describe it certainly seems like a Thetis bug associated with split and mode changes between CW and SSB, and the bug affects both MON and PS.

If you can identify a reliable way to reproduce this for both MON and PS, you should post it in Richie's topic so that he can then reproduce it also.
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ramdor
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby ramdor » Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:11 pm

tests :

https://youtu.be/v5I8cvD7GLk

Could not get anything odd to happen.
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby K9RX » Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:38 pm

Ok ... Richie, I note you say in your video that with PSA on and mode CW that the ATT is set to 31, it is not in your video, it is at 9. And with my testing below I'm also seeing it not 31 at times - even saw the correcting light come on one time when on CW. [This is why when this was being discussed, setting it to 31, and before I had upgraded to Thetis, I suggested that PS just be turned off on CW. Seems 'safer/simpler']. This is just an fyi - I would suspect not relevant to this.

The issue with PureSignal (PS) not working: Unfortunately, I can't get it to do it regularly. I hate intermittent issues. Anyway here's what I'm doing:

CW mode, I'm using a DJ panel. I hit A>B, MULT-RX on, SPLIT on. Tune up the band as needed (1-3Khz)... It all works. PSA is on during this (the button) and I note the dull/dim green light for FB is on but nothing is happening over there.

I was able to get this to fault only once out of probably 8 or 9 attempts. Frustrating. That one time I did not turn SPLIT/MULT off and I changed to another band - it misbehaved immediately. I thought I had it - don't turn SPLIT/MULTI off and force the program to do it - but, after closing the program and restarting it, it did not fault in this manner when I repeated this.

Additional notes:
-I mentioned another issue where MON is left on during this sequence. I watched your video for this and you don't have it on for CW, I suggest you turn MON on for CW, hopefully, you can replicate that problem. I just tried this again to be sure.

I tried it with MON off on CW (couldn't find the SETUP switch for it so I turned off the button). It remained off on USB. That worked.

I then went back to CW, SPLIT/MULTI, MON on, worked. I turned SPLIT and MULTI off and then switched to USB, monitor OFF - so that did work properly! I tried again - this time I did not turn SPLIT/MULTI off when changing to another band and mode. And this time MON stayed on. So allowing the program to force SPLIT off when changing bands, which is checked in SETUP, means that MON is missed and it is left on. Maybe check to see if you have that SETUP item checked: Force SPLIT on band change?

-I am using a keyer line in to the hardware of the rig, rig is 8000, using 2.9.03.

ps: Scott: you had said the best (only?) way to 'correct' for this issue was not to restart the program or reboot but to leave the program running and power cycle the rig. I tried that when this problem was there (PS not working, no correction) and it did not solve it. The only way I can get it to come back again is by restarting the program.

Gary
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby ramdor » Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:05 pm

Please watch the video again

I say 'the only time that att will be at 31 will be when PS-A is off'

please point me to time where I say

Richie, I note you say in your video that with PSA on and mode CW that the ATT is set to 31


It is set to 9 when PS-A is on, because, that is the value that was previously set in the ssb recalibration, which I also mention in the video. I can not get anything odd to happen.

It will be a rare event if it auto recalibrates with a CW signal, which may just be the issue that is causing the problem.

I will try the same tests again sometime over the weekend with MON on.

Thanks.
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:15 pm

K9RX wrote:ps: Scott: you had said the best (only?) way to 'correct' for this issue was not to restart the program or reboot but to leave the program running and power cycle the rig. I tried that when this problem was there (PS not working, no correction) and it did not solve it. The only way I can get it to come back again is by restarting the program.

Negative. That's not what I wrote. It is important to read carefully.

What I wrote was that was the way to determine with some confidence whether or not it was a firmware issue.
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:22 pm

In the FWIW department:

PureSignal with CW is not really required.

PureSignal with digi modes can be quite beneficial, especially with multi-tone modes.

In either case the automatic linearization process generally does not work well.

This is why there is a manual method of linearizing, which involves generating the two tone signal at the drive power level, then clicking the "Single Cal" button, which is available on the Linearity menu. Clicking the Single Cal button makes a linearization measurement which is then locked in until either the Single Cal button is clicked again, or the PS-A button is cycled. Generally you start two tone, then click the Single Cal button until you get results that look nice on the panadapter (in DUP mode, of course). This will work well until you change frequencies or drive levels.

P.S. Richie -- there is a minor nit with the Linearization menu. Whenever I open that menu, it opens fully, as if I have clicked the Advanced button. If you can replicate this then I'd suggest it be recoded to open as just the row of buttons, with the advanced controls only exposed if the Advanced button is clicked. It would be really sexy if it remembered its last state.
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby K9RX » Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:39 pm

Richie: re "31". I was referring to a conversation some time ago now where you gave a logic statement: IF CW ON and PS ON set ATT = 31. I assumed, yes, that that meant it would be set to that value, didn't think it would 'correct to/change to that from the previously set value'. This was why I had suggested just simply setting PS off when on CW. But I agree that it is benign, works fine.

Re MON. Like getting the PS to not correct there appears to be randomness here as well. I tried again: this time turning SPLIT/MULTI OFF before changing bands/mode and MON did not correctly turn off. So maybe it's not associated directly with the "force split off if changing bands" but it definitely is related to the use of SPLIT and then changing bands/mode. Same as the PS correction/non-correction issue. And note while doing this it once again got to a state where PS was not correcting on USB. So although it doesn't fail every time the MON one is pretty easily duplicated, the PS one not so much so but not too many tries and it goes awry.

Also - probably not relevant but in your video you are changing TX by clicking on the TX, I am actually turning the SPLIT (and MULTI) buttons on and off.

Gary
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ramdor
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby ramdor » Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:29 pm

I would like to see a video of it happening, which includes your Group ALC meter whilst PS-A is 'stuck'
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby ramdor » Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:29 am

ok, there does seem to be something happening. I tried to get it to occur for about 30 mins, and it happened once. I could not get PS to autocal at all, unless the software was restarted. ALC/ALCGroup were in the correct ranges.

To add to that, I just worked JW0X, fox/hound, with JTDX which uses split. Probably calling for 20 minutes. I then moved to ssb, different tx profile for a net, and for the life of me, again I could not get PS to engage. I did not try a single shot, just the PS autocal method. Restarted the software, changed modes, profiles, the ALC in the correct range, PS would not autocal. Restarted the software a number of times, and no go. Clicked power off in the software, power cycled the radio, clicked power on the software, and PS-A worked first time, indicating a FW issue perhaps.
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby K9RX » Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:46 pm

Richie, thanks for the perseverance. Might the MON issue, where it too is changed (from OFF selected on non-CW modes to it being ON after I've done SPLIT) be related and be a clue - indicating software? They both are changes in state - and they both happen as a result of operating SPLIT. As a designer/engineer myself I don't believe in coincidences (they happen - much less frequently than thought - generally if two seemingly unrelated things happen at the same time they're related causally).

Gary
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:08 pm

ramdor wrote:ok, there does seem to be something happening...Clicked power off in the software, power cycled the radio, clicked power on the software, and PS-A worked first time, indicating a FW issue perhaps.

If you can make this happen again, it would be good to just try power cycling the ANAN first. If it's a firmware problem things should immediately go back to normal once Thetis has reestablished a connection.
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Re: PS2 Green Indicator

Postby ramdor » Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:49 pm

yes, i need to replicate these two unique states, on the list for later in the week. Seems like they both revolve around split somehow. One being resolved by a restart of the client, one by the power cycle of the radio. Annoying that I didn't power cycle with the first.

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