pure signal not working right 2.9.06

mike b
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Location: michigan

pure signal not working right 2.9.06

Postby mike b » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:42 pm

i can not get the pure signal to work right using 2.9.06 . i know i am getting feed back from my amp i can see the levels drop a lot on the dup screen if i pull the feed back jumper ,the amp view 1.0 shows no movement once in a great while it might kick in for one tx than back to no correction after words. the fr coupler in built in to my amp{b262.5k from rf kit} this has worked flawless from day one but the last few revisions have made it useless. i have tried reinstalling thetis but no luck anyone else face this challenge. 73 n8obu
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w-u-2-o
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Re: pure signal not working right 2.9.06

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:03 am

PureSignal is working fine in 2.9.0.6 for a great many people, so it is certainly possible for you as well.

What model ANAN are you using?

Two-tone testing is a good place to start debugging this because it sidesteps some of the complexity of a voice signal.

Make sure that in Setup > Tests that Two Tone Test is set to Use Drive Slider. Using two-tone and the Drive set for 1000W output power what S-ATT value is achieved? And do the Feedback and PureSignal indicators in the lower right corner of the spectral display both turn bright green?

Post a screen shot of AmpView during the two-tone test at 1000W out, please.
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w-u-2-o
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Re: pure signal not working right 2.9.06

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:31 am

I looked at your QRZ page, so now I see it's a 7000 and it's 200ft from the amp. Since you are using VAC you should just move the ANAN to be next to the amp and do away with all of the coaxial cable and other complexities. My entire station is in the basement but is controlled from my second floor studio, connected by a single Ethernet cable. No need to have the ANAN near the PC.

Nevertheless PS should still work as is.
mike b
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 11:00 pm
Location: michigan

Re: pure signal not working right 2.9.06

Postby mike b » Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:39 am

this set up has worked perfect for years i have more than one hf rig set up in my house moving the anan is not a option , ill be removing 2.9.06 and going back to a older version to see if it clears up the issue .. back to were the vac works properly too. please refrain your self from commenting on my post. thank you 73 n8obu
mike b
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 11:00 pm
Location: michigan

Re: pure signal not working right 2.9.06

Postby mike b » Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:11 pm

removing 2.9.06 and installing a older version corrected the issue. no other changes were made
w4bf
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Re: pure signal not working right 2.9.06

Postby w4bf » Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:41 am

Might be something to his concern with 2.9.06. I've noticed a "flair up" in the broadband noise sometimes with voice input.
See screen shots. Both are with voice input into 50 ohm load using AL80B amp at 800 W with coupler feedback to my Anan 7000.

When the noise comes up, I see the lower right Pure Signal indicator at a different number and 1 dB difference in the Attn setting.

Never saw this before with version 2.8.11 MW0GE 21i Protocol 1. Spectrum will be good, then slowly grow up to the wide noise level. If I keep transmitting, it seems to slowly fix itself.

This doesn't happen all the time at every transmission and all cables are tight and nothing changed except going to 2.9.06.

It looks like feedback level is changing, although my peak power output is the same, as far as I can see.

Not the end of the world since spectrum is still much better than most radios on the air but it is different than earlier version.
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Noise flair with PS.jpg
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Normal PS Spectrum.jpg
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w-u-2-o
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Re: pure signal not working right 2.9.06

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:10 pm

I've seen that behavior on every version of PureSignal since my first ANAN that I got back in 2014.

There are clearly no major, intentional changes in 2.9.0.x versions as compared to 2.8.11. Could there be subtle, unintended issues? Certainly.

The the key word is "subtle". If there were major differences the forum would be lit up like a Christmas tree with observations and complaints. But it is not. Nor are any of the other, much smaller, on-line discussion groups (I checked).

Certainly your changes are subtle. If you are satisfied with the IMD performance of your signal within a couple of KHz then beyond that it just keeps getting better, even with the "flare up". Nobody will notice anything.

By far the thing that most drives PureSignal stability is consistently reaching 0dB (or higher) ALC levels. Just moving away from the microphone a few inches can have a dramatic effect, depending on how the audio processing is configured.

It's always worth reevaluating PureSignal related setup from time to time. Things do change. Operating habits, tube performance, minor changes in audio setup. Antenna impedance is a big one, changes there can affect amp linearity. And software, of course.

One way to determine where changes might be necessary is to use the two-tone test signal. Since two-tone bypasses all audio processing and is designed to hit 0dB ALC perfectly, if you use two-tone and see problems then the changes that are necessary are most likely going to be found in the Linearity > Advanced menu.

If all is perfect and stable with two-tone, then it might be time to look at audio setup. For instance, I always run with levels sufficient to see about +3dB ALC on peaks. Since ALC is a soft, look-ahead limiter, this just adds a tiny bit of additional compression while ensuring that there are frequent and solid enough voice peaks to get frequent, high quality PureSignal corrections.

Using the AmpView display is also an excellent way to monitor the performance of the feedback signal. Dashed, dotted, or badly distorted curves are an indication that the feedback data is bad. This could be due to many factors, but at least it will get you looking.

Finally, even if it is a small change in the software, and I'm not saying it is, perhaps then for some people it may require a small change in settings to recover back to the behavior seen in the previous software version. Given how the software (and firmware) are developed, that seems like a small price to pay to gain the new features and fixes in the latest version. We are all using the Ferrari of radios. With 40+ setup screens and who knows how many lines of code it's not wrong to characterize it as some high strung stuff. It definitely requires periodic tweaking to maintain maximum performance.

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