Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

KW4CQ_Bob
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Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby KW4CQ_Bob » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:05 pm

A new 7000DLE MKII s7 here. When pressing the keyboard spacebar to PTT on ssb or cw a relay (T/R?) inside the radio starts to chatter fast and the spectrum display dances up and down rapidly. Also, the MOX button locks up in transmit model Clicking on the MOX button puts the radio back in the receive mode again. I don't have a cw key plugged in front or back. Nothing else plugged into the back of the radio except the keyboard and mouse. When I unplug the keyboard and mouse and reconnect them again the problem disappears but only for a while and then returns. Anyone have an idea may be causing this?
Thanks, Bob KW4CQ
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:27 pm

It might be RFI affecting your keyboad and/or mouse.

Try a wireless keyboard and mouse. The 2.4GHz link is, believe it not, more RFI resistant than your typical wired stuff.
KW4CQ_Bob
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby KW4CQ_Bob » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:18 pm

Thanks Scott. Good idea. Running an ACOM 2100 at legal limit on the desktop here and no station ground available on my second floor shack. Just asking for RFI headaches.
Bob
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:21 pm

I had a second floor shack for a long time. People sneer at running a ground to the second floor but it is very much worth doing. Here's your shopping list:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ERICO-5-8-i ... /202195738
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Blackburn-1 ... /202907599
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-15 ... /202353315
https://www.homedepot.com/p/NSi-Industr ... 310770-_-N

These compression fittings are fantastic. Put one on EVERYTHING in your shack that needs one, especially your PC. Then run ground connections from everything to the grounding bar.

And, finally:

https://www.amazon.com/TEMCo-WC0089-100 ... 00LIB75RQ/

The welding cable has a high strand count. Not as good as solid copper, but perfectly adequate for HF and MUCH easier to work with.

A few ferrites on the coax where it feeds the antenna are also handy for killing off any currents on the coax shield, especially during tuning.
KW4CQ_Bob
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby KW4CQ_Bob » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:54 pm

Thanks very much for that information, Scott. An excellent shopping list. I'll have a go at it and see how it works out. It appears that I have a more serious RFI problem here than I thought. Whenever I go to tune my Acom amp into my antenna it will shut down HPSDR and I have to reboot the 7000. Tuning it into my PalStar dummy load with full power, no problem. Doesn't' bother the 7000 at all. If I carefully tune the amp at very low power and then bring up the power to full legal limit into the antenna I am OK, no shutdown results. I might also need to add a Common Mode Choke to my coax. I suppose in the end I could also relocate my amp further from the 7000 to see if that might help. Right now they are separated by about ten inches. Perhaps that proximity alone is asking for trouble.
Bob KW4CQ
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:11 pm

I might also need to add a Common Mode Choke to my coax.
That's what I meant about adding a few ferrites to the coax. Doing that is a very effective choke, and a lot of commercial chokes are nothing but a stack of ferrites.
I suppose in the end I could also relocate my amp further from the 7000 to see if that might help. Right now they are separated by about ten inches. Perhaps that proximity alone is asking for trouble.
Not at all. If your cabling, grounding and bonding is all up to snuff there should be no problem at all. You can stack them right on top of one another. You've either got radiated RFI (how far away is the antenna?), conducted RFI (shield currents), or both, maybe some radiated from the shield.

The fact that you can run at full power once tuned is a flare lit indication of shield currents and conducted RFI, and/or radiation from the shield as well, and suggests it is not radiated RFI from the antenna. Note that even with a choke this is why it is good operating practice to only tune at low power, plus that's the neighborly thing to do as well. Just like you should not tune up an amp on the air but only into a dummy load.

Again, don't forget to ground/bond the PC itself, and a wireless keyboard mouse is the way to go. I like this kit. Once you have the "hyperscroll" wheel for tuning the radio you won't miss a knob.
KW4CQ_Bob
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby KW4CQ_Bob » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:23 pm

I just ran another test, this time on 20m. No apparent RFI at full power at all anywhere on that band.
Antenna is an OCFD at 75 feet AGL and abt 90 feet from the rig. RG213 coax.
Got some cleanup to do here for sure. :)
KW4CQ_Bob
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby KW4CQ_Bob » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:06 pm

Well I was wrong about not having RFI on the other bands. After more careful checking it's pretty bad for sure. Again, this problem only happens when I am running something over a KW on any band and using antenna. Into the dummy load...NO PROBLEMS.
I have applied a large number of mix 31 clamp-ons and toroids to all the in/out cables on the 7000 MII i7 and on the Acom 2100 amplifier. I placed stacked toroid chokes on the on the amplifier RF in and out plus the AC power cord. I even placed ferrites on the little LAN jumper cable on the back of the radio. I have a Balun Designs CMC choke designed for this OCFD antenna up at the feed point of the antenna. Aside from not having a station ground system here on this second floor ham shack I believe I have used up all my filtering options. Running a heavy ground wire down to a ground rod is not the way to go for fighting RFI according to an expert on the subject, Charles W8JI. Instead, you need to bond everything to the service entrance ground. For me that is not a possibility. Way too far to go for that option.
I am wondering if the 7000's internal i7 processor board is too RFI sensitive for the power I am running at times? Anyone around with an i5 or i7 radio having RFI problems when running legar limit power?
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:13 pm

KW4CQ_Bob wrote: Aside from not having a station ground system here on this second floor ham shack I believe I have used up all my filtering options. Running a heavy ground wire down to a ground rod is not the way to go for fighting RFI according to an expert on the subject, Charles W8JI. Instead, you need to bond everything to the service entrance ground. For me that is not a possibility. Way too far to go for that option.
This is a classic example of letting perfection get in the way of good enough.

Step one: go execute against my suggested shopping list and bond everything in your station together. If that's not enough, then Step 2 is to get a ground wire put in and a separate grounding rod, even though it does not match up with what the "experts" say.

And, easiest and most important of all: have you switched to wireless keyboard and mouse setup yet?
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby KW4CQ_Bob » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:53 am

Thanks Scott and yes I will give the station grounding a go and see how that works out.
The fact that I don't get the RFI when running power into the dummy load suggests that I am not picking up direct RF coupling by the mouse, keyboard, and speaker cables. Process of elimination at work here. :)
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:03 am

KW4CQ_Bob wrote:The fact that I don't get the RFI when running power into the dummy load suggests that I am not picking up direct RF coupling by the mouse, keyboard, and speaker cables.
Not true at all. This merely says that the problem is radiated or conducted RF caused by working into a complex impedance that is your antenna system. If you can't eliminate that radiation or conduction you can at least harden against it by getting the wireless keyboard and mouse. The grounding and bonding should help reduce it, though.
KW4CQ_Bob
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby KW4CQ_Bob » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:15 pm

Scott, you hit the nail on the head. No more RFI here. I set the Drive level to achieve legal limit into the antenna. Then I put a mix 31 toroid on my KEY cable into the front of the radio. Then I removed the mouse and keyboard and keyed the rig with my CW keyer. No RFI and the ANAN is stable as a rock. Following this I wound both mouse and keyboard plus the keyer cables on some mix 31 toroids and that cleaned up everything nicely. Whew! Thanks very much for your patience and support Scott.
73 Bob KW4CQ
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:24 pm

I'm glad you got it sorted, Bob. Nevertheless, and I hate to be the proverbial dog with a bone, but I'd still say pick up one of these kits. I did the same thing, i.e. put a bunch of ferrites on my wired keyboard and mouse wires. Then one day I got into some 40M digi stuff and everything went crazy again. So you'll need to be on a careful lookout for when you operate different modes in different parts of the bands, etc. The 2.4GHz wireless stuff fixed all of these problems.

And don't slack off on that grounding and bonding. When you get all that done start removing ferrites. You might find out you don't need them at all! Except the chokes on the coax, of course.

Another RFI witch hunt: I used a shielded cable from my footswitch to my PTT input. The shield broke at the connector where it went into the radio. Crazy RFI problems. That also only happened during digi modes. It took me a week to find that one!
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby KW4CQ_Bob » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:40 pm

Sage advice once again, Scott and let me say that I really do appreciate that.
By the way, do you have any recommendation to offer on a quality wireless mouse and keyboard to look for? See a lot of them out there when doing a Google search but you can never tell what your going to get until you throw the dice it seams.
Oh, and by the way, I have never used the wireless types before. Does the receiver that comes with it simply plug into one of the USB ports on the back of the 7000 and is there some software to set up in my i7 radio?
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Re: Pressing Keyboard space bar for PTT causing constant switching and MOX lockup.

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:47 pm

KW4CQ_Bob wrote:By the way, do you have any recommendation to offer on a quality wireless mouse and keyboard to look for?
Did you not follow the link I made for you in my previous post?
Oh, and by the way, I have never used the wireless types before. Does the receiver that comes with it simply plug into one of the USB ports on the back of the 7000
Yes.
and is there some software to set up in my i7 radio?
Only if you want to use the special features of the mouse and keyboard, such as Hyperscroll (which you'll love). So just grab the drivers from the Logitech website (if you take my suggestion for hardware) and load them up on the PC in the 7000. But it will work fine as a plain old keyboard/mouse right away without them.

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