7000 fan noise

WA2DVU
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7000 fan noise

Postby WA2DVU » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:09 pm

Received my 7000 this week - very satisfied with operation. I notice that the fan is quite noisy - it is not air movement noise - sounds like bearing noise. Are these fans supposed to make a racket? 73, Bill, WA2DVU Cape May, NJ
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WA0VY
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby WA0VY » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:27 pm

I also noted, and reported, a similar fan noise in my 8000. followed by a single recent high temp fault. I am currently uncertain that my fan is working at all and plan to get inside and do some testing to see if the fan has failed or whether the controller has failed.
73 Brent WA0VY
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w9ac
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby w9ac » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:46 am

I noticed the same after my 7000DLE arrived today. The fan is somewhat noisier than I experience with my 200D, but I do feel more air flow coming out of the rear vent holes. Unlike the 200D, the 7000DLE's case runs much cooler during transmit and so far, shows no sign of needing an external cooling fan.

TX IMD products in PureSignal mode are consistently -65 dBc. That's 10 dB better than my modified 200D but 10 dB worse than the 8000DLE I tried during the summer. I'm very pleased with the -65 dBc performance.

Paul, W9AC
dl4zbg
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby dl4zbg » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:23 pm

I can confirm the fan noise issue als well. I sent a recording via mail to Apache Labs Support today and they replied:

Hello Volker,

The Fan noise is normal and cannot be reduced when using the internal FAN, you may disable the internal FAN and add an external one using the back panel FAN connector, however, disabling the internal FAN requires removing the back panel,

We would suggest using the radio as is and keeping it slightly away from the main operating area if the noise bothers you, if you need a quitter FAN we can let you know how to disable the internal FAN,

Regards,

Apache Labs Support

Is this a bad joke? My 100 fan is noisy, but no rattle snake.......

73

Volker
DL4ZBG
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w9ac
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby w9ac » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:34 pm

To me, the noise is noticeable but not annoying. It may be worthwhile looking at a premium Noctua replacement. Noctua fans are designed to produce minimum rumble and noise-generating turbulence while still providing rated air-flow volume.

Last year, I replaced a very noisy cooling fan on the back of my IC-7300. Every time the rig goes into transmit, the fan is pulsed at a high RPM. In CW QSK mode, this means the fan constantly being pulsed into high speed. After replacement with a Noctua type, there's no longer any audible noise from the fan and air flow is not compromised.

Paul, W9AC
administrator
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby administrator » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:39 pm

The 7000DLE internal FAN noise is slightly higher than the 200D, however, it is also moving more air, this was a conscious design decision and allows for a MUCH cooler radio, with the larger heat dissipation and better forced air cooling available to the 7000DLE it can run 100% ICAS duty cycle.

73,
Abhi
dl4zbg
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby dl4zbg » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:51 pm

Abhi,

we should not mix "noise" with "rattle" or "rumble"...

what is the problem?

- cheap fan - I can replace it by a Noctua or something similar as already suggested - WILL THIS BE AN IMPROVEMENT?
- bad control circuit?
- mechanical issue

Constant fan noise is a little bit annoying BUT NO PROBLEM.

HW?
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby administrator » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:07 pm

We tried several FAN controllers most of which caused serious EMI to the receiver, the controller used currently was the most RF silent, however, it induces a slight rattle in the FAN when running at low speed, you will notice that the rattle disappears when the FAN speeds up with temperature increase,

Trust me when I say that we tried a number of devices/fans before settling on the current one, the primary focus was to not degrade or compromise on the RF performance of the radio,

73,
Abhi
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w-u-2-o
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:43 pm

I recently went through a product development cycle that was faced with a similar problem. At certain fan speeds the fans rotors occasionally start precessing and this had the effect of inducing both a rattle and interfering with air flow. This was fixed by having the software stop and restart the fans when BIT detected an un-commanded drop in fan speed. It was and remains a huge kludge, a band-aid fix. Ultimately a better fan was identified that was form-fit and this solved the problem.

Sadly, most of the fans on the market are built in China, even the "good" ones, and thus both performance and reliability are exactly the issues you'd expect them to be.

Abhi--two recommendations: 1) add a software/firmware feature to allow the user to adjust the minimum fan speed, thereby avoiding the low speed rattle in exchange for more air flow noise. People may find one more acceptable than the other. 2) Are you sure it's the fan controller? It may be the mechanical properties of the fan. If this does not happen on every fan it may be more likely to be a mechanical problem.

Finally, I had a fan noise problem on an 8000. It turned out to be a tiny bit of RTV that captivated the fan power wires at the fan hub. It broke loose and the fan was hitting it like an old fashioned playing card against bicycle tire spokes. Just another example of a mass market, Chinese-built, fan QA issue.

On all of the production programs here there is 100% mechanical and electrical inspection of all fans. There's just no other way to guarantee good product is hitting the receiving dock and going into the stockroom. On one program, back around 2007 or so, we had to do 100% X-ray inspection of the fans! We were stuck with some very bad product and had to make it work as there was no form/fit substitute. Those wound up being some very expensive fans!

73!

Scott
dl4zbg
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby dl4zbg » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:53 pm

Thanks again, Scott for your recommendations.

I hope that Abhi and his team will find a solution for you cannot leave it as it is unless you don't want to sell it. Many people will read this post.

The hope dies last

73

Volker
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Re: 7000 fan noise

Postby administrator » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:43 am

The Fan controller is not software driven, it has a built-in temperature sensor and speed controller. The reason for doing so was to prevent cooling failure in case of a firmware/software crash. The low speed rattle is not specific to the particular fan used since we tested several models,

May I also say that acceptable noise levels may be perceived differently by different users, in my opinion the fan is noisier than the 200D but is quite acceptable to me, I understand that this may not be the case for some users.

keep in mind that the power consumption of DDC/DUC rigs is much higher in receive, therefore, adequate cooling...especially in a compact form factor is critical, like I mentioned the primary focus with this design choice was to ensure that the RF performance was not compromised,

73,
Abhi

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