Should I or not - Of course I will!

SA3ATF
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Should I or not - Of course I will!

Postby SA3ATF » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:14 am

:D Hello to you all!

Have been thinking about replacing HF rig for a long time. I have my faithful Flex 3000 and 5000 which I am very pleased with especially after KE9N's further development. But would like to renew me a bit and play with newer stuff. Recently came an extremely interesting thing for me in your software which is very much better eq and compressor etc because I am an audio freak.
The question is then whether it is worth updating to an Anan 7000 or an 8000?
I do nothing with the extra power of 8000 when I drive an Acom1000 to everyday.
Please help me to reveal the pros and cons of this adventure.

Thank you in advance / Tommy - SA3ATF
Last edited by SA3ATF on Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:30 am

Maybe I'll say I'm more a "rag shewing guy" than contest, though, of course, DX runs between the yards.
Loves audio and has previously had several meters of rack gadgets, but since the Flex I've run "barefoot", which has worked well with thoughts on the reports I received.
However, would like to go one step further and with newer technologies, etc.

Thank you for every reply!
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Tony EI7BMB
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Re: Should I or not

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:05 am

Using an Anan 100 here and the audio tools are excellent . Why not start with a second hand 100 or 100d which are great buys at the moment.
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Re: Should I or not

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:13 pm

Downside: you are going to miss some of the really wonderful features that KE9NS has imbued the legacy version of PowerSDR with. You will miss tracking notch filters.

Upsides (plural ;) ):

You will get built in audio features the likes of which you have never seen or heard. On the transmit side there is no cleaner audio in the business. You will have more processing power than even a lot of guys with rack gear, it's really that good. The best ALC in the business, too (it's a look-ahead soft limiter, not a clipper like you are used to in the old, legacy PowerSDR).

On receive you will get the best noise reduction feature, bar none. NR2 mode has to be heard to be believed.

The receiver sensitivity will be quite a few more dB then you are used to. Be sure to keep both dither and random turned on for best IP3 performance.

And, the ultimate improvement in audio and signal quality, PureSignal adaptive predistortion linearization. You will want to invest in a proper high power coupler to run this with your external amp, if you have one.

As for hardware, I'd wait for the 7000. It has more signal routing features than the 8000, it smaller, lighter, very few people really need a 200W radio, and the amp will have a more stable, temperature compensated bias supply. It should also prove to be less fussy than the LDMOS topology in the 8000 with respect to auto-tuners, if you use one. There may be other, as yet unannounced, advantages.

73,

Scott

P.S. moving this thread, it really doesn't belong in a firmware sub-forum.
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Re: Should I or not

Postby W1AEX » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:46 pm

Hi Tommy,

As a long time user of a Flex 5000 I have to say that I had tons of fun with mine. That being said, it would be unfair to compare the Flex 5000 with any of the ANAN rigs because they are in very different classes. The direct sampling ANAN rigs with the enhanced CFC Audio Tools and adaptive predistortion linearization will run circles around anything else out there. You can spot the ANAN rigs on a panadapter because they are the cleanest signals on the band and when the TX audio chain is adjusted optimally they sound spectacular. You really can make your ANAN sound exactly how you want it to sound if you work your way through the setup steps.

As much as I enjoyed my Flex 5000 there is absolutely no way that I would leave my ANAN rig to go back to it! One quirk in the Flex 5000 hardware that pushed me to the ANAN was the leaky LO that created a very nasty spur 11 kHz below the transmitted frequency on AM. This was an enormous problem in the northeast area of the US where there is lots of AM activity on 3885 and 3875 all the time. If I was operating on 3885 that spur would obliterate the QSO that was on 3875. Likewise, if I was on 3875, it would obliterate the sideband group that used 3865 daily. Every Flex 5000 generates this spur and I have quite a collection of screenshots that I shared with the guys from Flex back in 2014. The screenshot below shows a Flex 5000 owned by a friend I speak with on 15 meters. As you can see, that spur is only about 38 dB down from the fundamental signal, which is certainly not compliant with our emission purity requirements here in the US.

You won't find any of that nonsense with the ANAN rigs! As Tony suggested, there are quite a few used ANAN-100D and ANAN-200D rigs out there as folks begin to queue up for the arrival of the ANAN-7000 series rigs. Back in April I was able to buy a one month old ANAN-200D for less than I paid for my ANAN-100 back in 2014. A Revision 24 ANAN-100D or 200D would be a nice way to move up!

73,

Rob W1AEX

Leaky LO spurious emission transmitted by a friend's Flex 5000 during a QSO on 15 meters. This was received and displayed with my ANAN-100.
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:33 pm

Thank you so much for the detailed answers you gave me!
Your input has really got me in the right direction.
I have after this and with various speculation back and forth with my friend SM4PEL Peter here in Sweden, having a 100D found that there will be an Anan radio for me too.
Really looking forward to it and promising to return what I think when I have one.
Unless otherwise, I will surely ask you a lot of stupid questions :lol:


73's Tommy
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:57 pm

Hello to all of you!

There have now been a few questions that I would like to see if you can help me.
Has been offered both 100D and 200D, but, according to me, completely wrong pricing.
Especially now when 8000 DLE arrived and 7000 DLE soon arrived.
Maybe not fitting to write reasonable price so open on a forum, but if you want to, you are more then welcome to send me directly what you think they are worth today.

The next question is whether in simple words you can explain the biggest difference between the above mentioned rigs?
Of course I have read almost everything that is written about them, but better to get an opinion from you who might have them or are more familiar with the subject.
Would also like to get easily explained to me the biggest difference up to 7000DLE and 8000DLE and maybe between them too.
I am of the opinion that it is better to buy what one wants at one time than to shop cheap and therefore get the right tadio for me at once.
Especially when I'm completely in on these wonderful SDR radio's.

Impuls bought an Acom 1500 this week, I'm really looking for a radio, but I'm going to sell my Acom 1000, so there's not much money between them :P
Have also looked at some houses, so who knows, maybe I'll soon be able to get my mast, rotors and antennas in the foreseeable future.

I apologize for all of these questions, but I would like to know more about these incredible rigs before I decided for what they will be :D

Sorry if I'm writing strange, but I'm using Google Translate :lol:

73´s and thanks in advance - Tommy
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Re: Should I or not

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:11 am

Assuming you are buying later production units, both with Rev. 24 PA/RF boards, there is very little difference between a 100D and a 200D. The biggest difference is that the analog microphone settings are software selectable on the 200D instead of requiring the movement of jumpers on the 100D. The second biggest difference is that selecting bootloader mode is done with an external switch on the 200D and a jumper on the 100D. Finally, the 200D has a larger FPGA, but this is immaterial as the 200D and 100D FPGA images are functionally identical, i.e. there has never been, and probably will never be, an FPGA image that takes advantage of the larger FPGA on the 200D.

A fair price for a 200D is around $2100, give or take, based on what people are selling them for on qth.com and similar websites.

The differences between the 7000 and 8000 are not entirely clear yet. Both will use nearly identical variants of the Orion Mk II SDR circuit card. Both will provide full preselect filtering on both ADC inputs. The 7000 will provide 100W of output power vs. 200W on the 8000. Most people buying this level of radio sophistication already have an amplifier, so 100W ought to be adequate. The internal cooling provisions of the 8000 are apparently superior to the 7000, however the 7000, being much smaller than the 8000, offers a PWM fan output for an external fan (not supplied) to blow on the exterior of the main housing, which acts as the main heat sink for the RF output transistors. This is a common practice among 100D and 200D owners and should work very well with the 7000, especially with the PWM fan output to work with. The 7000 and 8000 audio and control IO provisions are nearly identical, the only difference being that the 8000 offers some 1/4" phone jack connections in addition to the 1/8" connections. The 7000 RF IO provisions appear superior to the 8000, bringing back the very flexible switchology used on the 100D and 200D but lacking on the 8000. Most important, the 7000 is rumored to incorporate the first temperature compensated amplifier bias circuit used on an ANAN series radio. This should make the amplifier stability of the 7000 the best of all of the ANAN series.

73,

Scott
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:40 pm

Thank you very much for your detailed reply again Scott!

I almost think it seems that the best purchase is a 7000DLE when they arrive soon.
Too bad is that much more expensive here in Sweden.
7000DLE is expected to cost 4404USD and 8000DLE costs 6116USD if I count on the current currency.
If I order directly or from the United States, shipping will be added and then import fee (25% VAT) on the full amount, and then it's almost up to the Swedish prices anyway :cry:

73´s Tommy
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:11 pm

What is the greatest difference between the different boards, like Rev 16 and Rev 24?
Have obviously read this on the forum, but as I said before, it's easier to get it explained by you as know.
Has been offered two 200D and it seems to be one earlier and one later.

It's close now :D

73´s - Tommy
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Re: Should I or not

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:34 am

SA3ATF wrote:What is the greatest difference between the different boards, like Rev 16 and Rev 24?

The differences are as follows:

1. The Rev. 24 board has less crosstalk between TX and RX paths, thereby allowing better PureSignal linearization peformance.
2. The Rev. 24 board has a proper internal coupler to provide feedback for PureSignal linearization operation when not using an external amplifier.
3. Due to the implementation of the internal coupler, one uses the Bypass input as an external coupler input for linearization (on the older boards it was the Ext 1 input).
4. RX2 is not grounded on transmit (it is on the older boards), thereby allowing over-the-air monitoring of your transmitted signal using RX2. However, when transmitting on an antenna that is in close proximity to a separate RX2 antenna, then with any revision of PA/RF board it is good practice to use some protective mechanism on the RX2 input. Many people use a limiter, such as the DX Engineering Receiver Guard. I use one of those and it works extremely well.

73,

Scott
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:20 pm

Thank you very much Scott for very comprehensive answers!

Perhaps it may be worth paying a little more for the Rev24 model then?

As for the PureSignal coupler, I wonder if it works with one from Wavenode?
Here is a link: http://www.wavenode.com/index.htm#RFView
I have many of their products and it would be easy to just buy a new sensor with RF view.

I'm really grateful for your superior support, especially now that I'm new to these rigs.
It's appreciated!

As I said, I have been offered two 200D now.
One older model is here in Sweden and the other in Iceland.
Just to decide what to buy.
I am really excited and longing like a child on Christmas Eve until I get home one ;)

73´s
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:25 pm

Just found the answer about the coupler on the Wavenod website :oops:

"WaveNode sensor RFView ports are optimized for Anan SDR IMPure operation. The ouput is set for -3 dbm @100 watts forward power. This level will not to exceed the recommended input level of +13 dbm @ 1500 watts forward power. This IMPure level is set only when the customer requests it at time of ordering, either by email Contact@Wavenode.com or phone contact"
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Re: Should I or not

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:53 pm

That's a coupling factor of -53dB. That's about perfect for 1.5KW. At 100W the -3dB output will work, but it's a little low for optimum PureSignal processing performance, but it will work.

The nice thing about having a slightly lower coupling factor, like the -44dB provided on the Xtronic products, is that it allows the user to select the right amount of additional attenuation for their individual application (e.g. barefoot at 100W or QRO).

73!

Scott
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:19 am

Hello guys!

At the end of the week we decided that I would greet my friend sm4pel to have a nice chat and play with his 100D.
I have now spun an Anan 100D and am completely blessed!
Just talked to a station from Germany in 80m who ask if I drove on a sdr rig with pure signal because he thought my signal was so clean on his screen
I told him what I was working on and he said, "I understood it" :D
In the evening we have played with all the settings and realized that Peter sounds even better if possible after that and I have had the opportunity to get acquainted with all of its inexorable adjustability.
If possible, I'll be even more inspiried and tomorrow I'll look at a 200D, which is for sale here in Sweden, even if it means 750km extra for me.
What makes you drive 2500km on a weekend if it's in good purpus (radio) :lol:

Continuation follows...

73's
Tommy, sa3atf
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Re: Should I or not

Postby W1AEX » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:34 am

The ability to adjust every aspect of the transmitter and receiver is one of my favorite things about the ANAN rigs. Of course the performance is an even better feature! I think you will enjoy whatever model you decide to purchase.

73,

Rob W1AEX
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:48 am

Absolutely, completely agree with you!
In addition, everything feels so simple and of course I'm used to PowerSDR from my old Flex.

Yes, as you hear, I'm already very impressed by these wonderful rigs!

73's
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Re: Should I or not

Postby SA3ATF » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:30 pm

Hello guys!

Now it's on the way a 200D Rev 24 and piHPSDR home to me and they'll should show up next week!
Have I said I'm looking forward to it ? :lol:
Too bad I'm working next weekend, I'm very likely to be extremely tired on the job :D

Have at least run a bit with my new Acom 1500 amplifier and it's quite a big difference to my Acom 1000.
It seems extremely easy driven and very smooth with the built-in antenna switch.
Time to rebuild the shack again :roll:

To be continued.....

Wish everyone a really nice weekend from Sweden!

73's
Tommy, sa3atf
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Re: Should I or not - Of course I will!

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:57 pm

Tommy,

I do hope you plan on using a PC with PowerSDR in addition to the piHPSDR. The pi doesn't (yet) have but a small fraction of the capabilities of PowerSDR, and we all want you to enjoy the full power of the dark side of the force :D

73!

Scott
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Re: Should I or not - Of course I will!

Postby SA3ATF » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:21 pm

Of course I will have my main computer for Anan radio in first place.
It is packed with Intel Core i7 7820X 3.6 GHz processor, Samsung 850 EVO PRO 512GB disk, Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 2666MHz CL16 Vengeance x 2 ram and MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Gaming X for the graphics and its all mounted in a Corsair Carbide Air 540 Cube.
The motherboard I do not remember what it's called now, so piHPSDR is just a fun game to play with ;)
I got a good package price and thought it might be fun to play with it too :D

73´s
Tommy, sa3atf
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Re: Should I or not - Of course I will!

Postby SA3ATF » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:40 pm

https://imgur.com/a/W84ux

Here's a recently picture from my shack.
Do not know if I did right when I uploaded the image....
There you can see the computer standing on the floor under the table.
Planning a whole new version now, since I rarely have the same set up more than maybe two months and see it as a part of the hobby to rebuild and improve the shack all the time.
I have 3 23 "monitors now, but I plan to replace them any day.
Thinking of testing this weekend to "just" run one 55 "monitor and feel how it feels like.
Too bad, I live in a rented apartment now, in front of your own house before, but as I told you, I look for a housel and hope to have one own in the foreseeable future and to mount the tower with rotators and antennas.

You are welcome to look at my QRZ page to see some older pictures on my setup and so on.
Have been a bit bad about keeping things fresh, but it can only get better.
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Re: Should I or not - Of course I will!

Postby SA3ATF » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:30 am

Come on thinking of one thing, I'm used to PTT the Flex and Acom amplifier using a foot switch.
Then guess that I'm going to plug in the back ACC jack to make it work like I'm used to?
PTT to the amplifier can I drive from the radio and the RCA jack to my Acom when I see a PTT out of 200D ??
Just want these things for sure until the radio is over here and I can prepare such things.

Today, I'm driving my Heil PR40 straight into the Flex via a home-made adapter from the 3.5mm stereo plug o RJ45 in the front of it, but guess I can feed my 3.5mm plug directly from the PR40 into the Anan 200D in the front ?
Is there any other benefit to using the ACC jack I wonder?

! 000 questions, but just want to prepare for as much as it goes until the Anan radio arrives :P
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Re: Should I or not - Of course I will!

Postby SA3ATF » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:27 am

Aboute the attenuator on RX2, do you think I should order one from for example DXEngineering, or do you have other suggestions?
It will be expensive for me to order from there with currency exchange and VAT, but is it the best option so what?

What about the Pure Signal coupler is the best solution?
To order from WaveNode when I already have their products in the shack, or do you think so?
I'm welcome to all the tips and do not understand much in price, so it's the best deal to do it right right away.
As for the embedded amplifier, I do not care much about it, when I drive with my Acom PA 99% of the time.

I just want to know everything when my 200D arrives .....

Now we are there with a thousand questions, but I warned you already before this!
I know how this sounds strange, but I'm running Google Translate as I said before, so you blame them instead of me and my bad school English :D

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Tommy, sa3atf
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Re: Should I or not - Of course I will!

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:11 am

PTT: wiring a foot switch or any other type of switch is straightforward. The necessary pinouts on any connector you choose to use are in the user manual. Wire to the 25 pin accessory connector or make an appropriate cable for the 3.5mm microphone jack on the front, whatever works best for you. Note that, because of the mechanical mounting of the 25 pin connector, it can be difficult to obtain a good fit on some mating connectors. Be wary of that problem. If it were me, I'd wire the foot switch to the 25 pin connector because I think it is neater and cleaner to keep it separate that way, but that's just me.

You can drive the ACOM directly from the PTT out jack.

Your PR40, being a dynamic microphone, will require "mic boost" to be turned on in the settings. You will have to use the 3.5mm mic input jack, you cannot bring it in via the 25 pin accessory connector because you must bring it in via the microphone input and only the line input is available on the accessory connector. Study the wiring carefully in the user manual.

You don't need an attenuator for RX2, but I find a limiter to be a good safety measure if you are using it with an antenna in close proximity to your main transmit antenna. I like the DX Engineering limiter and that is what I use.

The gold standard for amateur radio HF couplers are the Xtronic units. If you are going to acquire something from Wavenode, it would be best if it had a coupling factor of approx. 45dB. This is just a little low at 1500W, however because of that you can fine tune your feedback level with an additional external attenuator. I like to by a 1 to 10dB rotary step attenuator off of eBay. They are inexpensive and allow you to easily fine tune the output of the Xtronic coupler. If the Wavenode has 50 or 55dB coupling factor you will find that adequate at 1500W, but a bit less than optimal at say 100W (but it will still work).

73,

Scott
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Re: Should I or not - Of course I will!

Postby SA3ATF » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:22 am

Thank you very much for the reply Scott!
That sounds safe when I wrote the manual at work tonight,
However, I have never had to drive the PR40 in the high boost mode, even though I know it's low output level from that microphone.
I guess it will be a bit of a trail and error before these pieces work satisfactorily.


What I'm most fragmented about is the Pure Signal coupler and, above all, the gearbox of the RX2 right now,
but I guess most of the time has its simple and logical explanation when I'm doing it all the way
.As I said, I will keep you up to date ...

73´s
Tommy, sa3atf
I don’t suffer from insanity, I enjoy every second of it!

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