Birdie repeating every 100kHz

JJ4SDR
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:09 pm
Location: TEXAS, USA

Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby JJ4SDR » Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:46 pm

I am not sure if this is hardware or software related (perhaps this has nothing to do with the ANAN 7000 DLE MKII at all), but on 17,15,10 and 6 meter bands I see a "birdie" that repeats every 100 kHz. Any suggestions on where to look? Running Thetis 2.8.11 (10/20/20).

Best!
Juha
NI2M
PC: 8 Core i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz, NVMe SK Hynix 512 GB SSD, 32GB RAM
Windows 10 Home, Version 22H2
Thetis v2.10.4.3 x64
Protocol 2 v2.1.18
w9mdb
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w9mdb » Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:50 pm

Can you post a snapshot?
Mike W9MDB
JJ4SDR
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:09 pm
Location: TEXAS, USA

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby JJ4SDR » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:16 pm

See 3 images (6/10/12 meters) to give some idea. Yes, the 12 meter images shows birdies out of band, but they repeat every 100kHz.

Juha
Attachments
Birdie on 12 meters.jpg
Birdie on 12 meters.jpg (210.36 KiB) Viewed 4488 times
Birdie on 10 meters.jpg
Birdie on 10 meters.jpg (208.41 KiB) Viewed 4488 times
Birdie on 6 meters.jpg
Birdie on 6 meters.jpg (211.03 KiB) Viewed 4488 times
PC: 8 Core i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz, NVMe SK Hynix 512 GB SSD, 32GB RAM
Windows 10 Home, Version 22H2
Thetis v2.10.4.3 x64
Protocol 2 v2.1.18
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 5539
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:47 pm

Not a Thetis issue (moving the topic).

Have you tried a different power supply? Run the ANAN off of a battery? Run around the house turning off circuit breakers?
w9mdb
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w9mdb » Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:49 pm

I'm seeing similar birdies on my 7000DLE MKII.
Have to hook my ANAN100 again and see if it sees them.

It's a CW signal with a quickly varying amplitude. Wonder if it's some internal oscillator?

Mike
Mike W9MDB
PD3LK
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:45 pm
Location: Apeldoorn, NLD

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby PD3LK » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:16 pm

Try disable 6m LNA RX and TX : Setup, General, Ant Filters, tab BPF1/LPF
(for SDR-Console users: do the same)
73 PD3LK
73 PD3LK Leon
w9mdb
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w9mdb » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:40 pm

6m LNA enabled or disabled makes no difference.
Mike W9MDB
PD3LK
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:45 pm
Location: Apeldoorn, NLD

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby PD3LK » Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:40 pm

Is it still there when you disconnect/shorten antenna inputs?
73 PD3LK Leon
w9mdb
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w9mdb » Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:54 pm

Yes...still there.

But that did help to identify what appears to be the source at 4.953MHz
It's -85dBm but reduces a lot when enabling the 60M antenna connection.
Attachments
Screenshot 2021-10-25 155340.png
Screenshot 2021-10-25 155340.png (14.93 KiB) Viewed 4420 times
Mike W9MDB
PD3LK
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:45 pm
Location: Apeldoorn, NLD

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby PD3LK » Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:06 pm

nasty : ( i suspect it's coming from your (switching?) PSU.
Try another one or a battery as Scott advised.
73 PD3LK Leon
JJ4SDR
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:09 pm
Location: TEXAS, USA

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby JJ4SDR » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:26 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:Not a Thetis issue (moving the topic).

Have you tried a different power supply? Run the ANAN off of a battery? Run around the house turning off circuit breakers?


Scott!

Will try it. Right now I am using (my preference) a linear PSU by Astron. I have a SPS too.

Juha
PC: 8 Core i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz, NVMe SK Hynix 512 GB SSD, 32GB RAM
Windows 10 Home, Version 22H2
Thetis v2.10.4.3 x64
Protocol 2 v2.1.18
w9mdb
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w9mdb » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:03 pm

I identified my problem...it is my 2nd Bodnar GPS sitting at 4.593 but it's creating harmonics like crazy which it seems should not happen.

Mike W9MDB
Mike W9MDB
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 5539
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:13 pm

That's interesting, Mike. I have a mini-Bodnar, but it lives two stories above the main radio rack, and if it's throwing off any RFI it's not been apparent here. Is yours the full size or mini? And it's programmed to 4.593 MHz? That's kind of an odd freq?
w9mdb
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:53 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w9mdb » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:36 pm

MIne's plugged into the rig on Ant2....I use a programmable attenuator
I have 3 of them for doing different frequency testing across rigs and such.

That just happened to be the last frequency I was testing.
With 48dB attenuation it clears up a lot. Much less than that and the noise floor on the wideband display goes up dramatically.
So any signal over about -90dB is causing bad effects.


Mike
Mike W9MDB
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 5539
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:41 pm

w9mdb wrote:MIne's plugged into the rig on Ant2....I use a programmable attenuator. I have 3 of them for doing different frequency testing across rigs and such.

That just happened to be the last frequency I was testing. With 48dB attenuation it clears up a lot. Much less than that and the noise floor on the wideband display goes up dramatically. So any signal over about -90dB is causing bad effects.

The Bodnar units are not very good for such purposes if you are worried about harmonics. The output of the Bodnar units are square waves. So of course you are going to get odd-integer harmonic frequencies of the form 2π(2k − 1)f.

If you are concerned about harmonics in your experiments you should probably get a real signal generator that you can lock to the GPS reference. Or you could build low pass filters for the Bodnar for each frequency you want to use.
JJ4SDR
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:09 pm
Location: TEXAS, USA

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby JJ4SDR » Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:40 pm

w-u-2-o wrote:Not a Thetis issue (moving the topic).

Have you tried a different power supply? Run the ANAN off of a battery? Run around the house turning off circuit breakers?


Tried unplugging a few wall-warts but no difference. Then I looked at my YETI emergency power supply (I am supposed to keep in plugged in at all times) and decided to switch it off. All birdies or "spurs" gone.

Thanks!
Juha
PC: 8 Core i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz, NVMe SK Hynix 512 GB SSD, 32GB RAM
Windows 10 Home, Version 22H2
Thetis v2.10.4.3 x64
Protocol 2 v2.1.18
User avatar
w-u-2-o
Posts: 5539
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Birdie repeating every 100kHz

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:09 pm

:)

Return to “Everything Else: Antennas, Relays, Switches, Power, Grounding, Cooling, etc.”