Trouble tuning Palstar HF Auto tuner

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rbduck
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Trouble tuning Palstar HF Auto tuner

Postby rbduck » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:36 pm

I am using a Palstar HF Auto tuner. I'm running Thetis (latest version and firmware to date) . My question is what type of signal does pressing the TUNE button emit? The reason I ask is this. The HF Auto tuner will not automatically tune on any bands above 40 meters. Even to a dummy load. In fact I tried two different dummy loads. I read the manual and it states the tuner will only tune with an FM or CW carrier. Sure enough I selected FM mode and the tuner nails a 1.01:1 SWR almost every time. On every band. With the TUNE pressed the tuner searches endlessly for a match. And only above 40 meters. I thought I had a bad cable, dummy load or was sending too much or too little power to the tuner. I called Palstar and they said that the tuner didn't work well at all with an AM carrier.

EDIT: OK, I guess the TUNE signal is determined by the mode I have it set to. I did notice that if I set the mode to FM and hit the TUNE button the Panafall indicated that it was an FM carrier. Right or Wrong?

So if I could find out how to set the TUNE button to emit an FM or CW carrier it would be good. This was a head scratchier for sure.

Thank you
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Trouble tuning Palstar HF Auto tuner

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:56 pm

In CWU, CWL, DIGU, DIGL, AM, USB and LSB, asserting TUN causes the radio to emit a CW carrier signal at the dial frequency. This should be adequate to run any auto-tuner. The output power level is either the tune power set in Setup > Transmit, or it is the normal "drive power" if the "Use Drive Power" button is checked.

However, are you using an ANAN-8000?
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rbduck
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Re: Trouble tuning Palstar HF Auto tuner

Postby rbduck » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:32 pm

I'm using a 7000DLE mkII. I spoke with a tech at Palstar. He said that the HF AUTO Tuner would not reliably tune with any other signal that an FM or CW carrier. I did run a few tests of my own with the 7000. When the TUNE button is pressed the type of signal sent is whatever mode you are in at the time. If you are in LSB signal it transmits in LSB mode modulated with a tone. If you are in FM mode an FM signal is sent with a tone when the TUNE button is pressed. Ect. Ect. To prove this further I used another radio in receive mode verify the mode what the 7000 is transmitting. I verified each mode selected is the exact signal sent when using the TUNE button.

Yes, I made sure the TUNE settings were correct. While in LSB mode I tried different power settings from 10 watts to 60 watts. The tuner would correctly tune in auto on 160, 80 and 40 meters. Everything above 40 meters the tuner would just hunt and never tune. With the 7000 in FM mode it tuned every band within a few seconds at 1.2:1 or less. If the 7000 is supposed to be sending a CW signal with the TUNE button while in LSB or USB mine is not. I don't know whats going on there. I did try manually selecting the CWL and CWU modes and they tuned fine.

What started this latest journey was I bought a multi-transceiver to multi-antenna coaxial switch. I put it in line and then thought that I lost my ability to use the tuner on all bands above 40 meters. I switched different jumpers around. I changed them with others. Nothing improved what I was seeing. Finally I eliminated practically everything by going straight from the transceiver to the tuner. I tried tuning to the antenna with no luck.
I then tried two different dummy loads with no luck. That's when I went to the Tuner manual. I also found a support forum on Groups.io. One fellow sent me an email asking if I was using an FM or CW signal to tune with. I thought and realized that I had no idea what type of signal the 7000 was sending when I was in LSB mode. I had assumed it was CW. That's when I tested and tried manually switching to the FM, CWL or CWU modes. Doing that resulting in the tuner working correctly on every band I tried from 160 meters through 60 meters. I then put my switch back into play. It all works as it should.

Again I was assuming something that was not quite correct. Scott, thank you for your help and have a great day!
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
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w-u-2-o
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Re: Trouble tuning Palstar HF Auto tuner

Postby w-u-2-o » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:08 pm

Just to be clear: when in USB or LSB, the radio transmits a CW signal. To be even more precise, whether it's a "true CW" or a single tone modulated via an SSB modulator, the actual transmitted RF is identical. So something is not exactly right somewhere, but it has nothing to do with the mode you are in. I just wanted to make sure this is clearly stated in case someone else reads this topic someday.

73,

Scott
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rbduck
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Re: Trouble tuning Palstar HF Auto tuner

Postby rbduck » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:08 am

Yes, It is very probable I am misidentifying the signal. I'm also sure it's nearly impossible to tell exactly what signal is being transmitted without the proper equipment. I stand corrected since you know the radio inside out and I can barely spell Anan. No, seriously I'm just glad I'm able to tune where needed. I will get to the bottom of why the CW signal being sent is different than the CW signal being sent after selecting CWU or CWL.
I'm sure I'm going to find out I've selected or deselected something somewhere that is causing the difference. Or maybe a glitch in the firmware or software. I do remember having no issues tuning earlier on the upper bands just by hitting the TUNE button. It;s been a month ago at least. A lot has changed since then.

Anyway I'm talking around the world here. I have solved several of my learning curve issues just by starting a topic. I start to explain it in writing and then discover my error while thing through the note. Also I didn't mean to sound argumentative earlier, It was some of my talking through the isse to be best of my knowledge. I'll get there one day. I'm still learning and enjoying the ride.

Thank You Scott for the information and help you provide me with!
73
Ruben
NB4R
Apache-Labs Anan 7000DLE MKII Black -- Thetis 2.10.3.6 dev_2 -- Windows 11
WR4N
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Location: Tennessee

Re: Trouble tuning Palstar HF Auto tuner

Postby WR4N » Sun May 09, 2021 2:21 pm

I simply went through the bands and tuned every 5 - 20 kHz (depending on the band) with FM and in Auto Mode. Then I’d switched to Manual Mode and fine-tune, switch back to Auto Mode and the settings were saved. Yes, it takes a little while (maybe an hour total to do this with all bands), but once you’re done ... you’re done! Set it up like that (which is what the manual recommends) and you’ll be fine! ;) NOTE: Even if I find a frequency that is higher than I’d like, due to a temporary condition, I can tune using the same process in perhaps 5-10 seconds. Personally, I love my PALSTAR.
RADIO: ANAN 7000 DLE MK2 (Black Version) Thetis 2.8.11.
PC: HP Desktop - Intel Core i7 (10th Gen) - 16GB memory - 512GB SSD - Intel UHD Graphics 630 - WINDOWS 10 (100% Dedicated to ANAN)
PS: ASTRON 35 AMP (100% Dedicated to ANAN)

Best 73s,
WR4N - David

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