ASIO not working

USB headsets to digital audio workstation software...
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oe3ide
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ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Fri May 21, 2021 4:30 pm

Hi!

Received my 7000 DLE today. System is up and running (upgraded to protocol 2, running Thetis 2.8.11).

I am trying to activate VAC1 for phone audio. I have 2 issues... I played around... but I am out of ideas:

1) If I select ASIO on VAC1 (Voicemeeter Virtual Asio) for output, I did'nt get a sound to Voicemeeter (and of course not on my default playback-device (headphones). When I close Voicemeter and select Focusrite USB Asio there is also no sound-output. If I play a audio-file via Foobar with ASIO-plugin, sound-output is perfect.
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2) If I activate VAC1 and close/reopen Thetis, VAC1 is always disabled.

Checked now all Samplerates (in windows sound-control), all are 24bit/48khz. If I shutdown voicemeeter, I can use Focusrite ASIO in Thetis. So it has something to do with Thetis/VMP.
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri May 21, 2021 8:28 pm

To answer your second question first: VAC state is not maintained in the band stack registers, but in the transmit profile. If you have not saved your transmit profile with VAC turned on then it will not be turned on whenever that profile is selected, including when the app starts. Beware of the "auto save TX profile" options, they can drive you mad when you forget that you made some change and it gets auto-saved. I recommend turning those off and only explicitly saving profiles.

As for your other difficulties: Foobar is probably a bad method of testing. I can't find any documentation, but I suspect that the ASIO component for Foobar is really a version of ASIO4All, which ought to be renamed "NOTASIOatALL"!

Let's concentrate on just on going direct to the Focusrite, first. Please post screen shots of your Thetis VAC settings, your Focusrite control panel settings, and the main Thetis UI in a configuration that you think should work.
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Sat May 22, 2021 4:18 am

ok, here we go
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Sat May 22, 2021 4:18 am

2nd part
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Sat May 22, 2021 7:36 am

Ok, finaly got it working. My fault was, to mix the Voicemeeter devices in the VAC1 selection ("Voicemeeter VAIO 3" + "Voicemeeter Virtual ASIO").
Now set both to VAIO3, and this works now :-)
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat May 22, 2021 12:10 pm

Glad you found it :) Yes, you can't mix the settings in Thetis (or PowerSDR). It is an unfortunately limitation.

Also know that you only get ONE instance of ASIO. You cannot use the ASIO driver in VAC2 if you are using it in VAC1. However, WDM-KS is not that much slower. If you want RX2 audio via VAC, use WDM-KS, assign it to one of the other virtual channels in Voicemeeter, and mix them out in Voicemeeter to your PC audio device.
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Sun May 23, 2021 8:14 am

With this limitation (when using ASIO only same channel is allowed), it is not possible to use the MON function.
Correct?
At least with my setup I get endless feedback.
VMP:
Hardware input (my Mic on Focusrite) sends to B3 (VM ASIO 3). ASIO 3 is sent to A1 (main hardware-out.. my headphone)
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Also when streaming with OBS, I have only ONE usable audio-source (VM VAIO3 in my case), which represents my mic-audio AND the receive audio from Thetis.

So my question would be, what are the disadvantages of using MME (or WDM-KS) instead of ASIO (and then different MME devices, e.g. as output "MME VB-Cable 1", as input "MME VM VAIO 3").
Of course the latency, but when testing with MME I would not have really noticed this latency as a disadvantage ... but maybe I am missing something (I am a Anan-rookie ;-)

I could imagine that this latency is annoying when using the MON function, but I cannot use the MON function with ASIO (endless feedback)...

What are the other drawbacks of higher latency or using MME instead of ASIO?

Thanks
73 de Ernst
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun May 23, 2021 11:31 am

Ernst,

You can certainly use MON, although latency is horrible. Driver selection has absolutely no bearing on the problems you are experiencing. They are all related to your Voicemeeter (which I'll abbreviate as "VMP") configuration.

I see a lot of weird things that don't make sense.

1. Why is OBS assigned to channel B3 at the same time as Thetis? Remove that assignment in OBS. I also see OBS on channel B1. B1 is a good place for it. To send audio from Thetis to OBS, select the B1 send on channel B3.

2. Why are there app's that have no sound output assigned to channel B1? PicPick and Synapse have no sound output that I'm aware of, do they? Also, why are you sending audio from Brave through B1? For software that is not involved with Thetis audio just send it the default Windows Sound device. You can make your Focusrite be the default Windows Sound device in the Windows Sound Control Panel and bypass VMP for "normal" stuff, i.e. things that are not related to Thetis.

3. What are you using the separate VB-Cable connection on channel A2 for? With VMP you should not need an extra cable like that for anything. Delete that.

You've also got some things that are not optimum in your VAC setup.

1. When using ASIO you must set the VAC buffer size to match your ASIO device (Focusrite) buffer size, which you posted previously was 256.

2. Since the numbers you've got in for Buffer Latency and Port Audio are huge you might as well set those to automatic and then circle back around to optimize them later. However, when using ASIO Port Audio can be set to 0 right off the bat.

3. Turn on the Stereo checkbox.

4. TX gain should be 0. You should NEVER need that much TX gain. If you do then something is not right in your TX audio chain prior to Thetis.

5. Related to (4) above, set the B3 channel slider to 0dB.

6. Try letting the resampler run with those changes.

Also, in Thetis itself:

1. Master AF has no effect on VAC. It can be left at 0.

2. You want to push RX1 and RX2 AF to 100. This makes them act like a "line out" on Thetis when using VAC. This will provide a consistent level to all app's, e.g. OBS, etc. Then control your listening volume in VMP with the B3 Master Slider (not the B3 channel slider), or with the Focusrite headphone or speaker volume knobs.

73,

Scott
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Sun May 23, 2021 1:22 pm

...............................................................
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun May 23, 2021 1:48 pm

Ernst--my apologies, somehow I screwed up your last post. I accidentally hit one of my magic moderator buttons. It is now mangled beyond repair :(

BUT...my answer should still be good, I hope :)

Scott, thanks for you patience.. I started a fresh config...


It should be noted that this is turning into a "how to use VMP and OBS" topic and doesn't have a lot to do with Thetis.

First things first: are you now successfully getting mic audio into Thetis for transmission and Thetis receiver audio out to your Focusrite speakers/headphones?

6. Try letting the resampler run with those changes...
You mean the VAC-monitor?

No. I mean you have the Force boxes checked which disables the VAC resampler. Under normal conditions the resampler should provide cleaner audio. Some people have problems with the resampler and check these boxes to turn it off.

Some of my goals:


Those are all very reasonable goals, and entirely possible. I recommend a "build a little, test a little approach". One thing at a time.

Again, are you now successfully getting mic audio into Thetis for transmission and Thetis receiver audio out to your Focusrite speakers/headphones? If not we need to fix this FIRST.

Getting a feed to OBS would be the second thing. That is easy (I stream with OBS also). Assign the first OBS Mic/Auxiliary Audio entry to one of the VMP virtual channels. NOT the channel you use for Thetis. Let's say channel B1. Then simply punch in any "sends" you need in VMP to go to B1. If you want Thetis receiver audio punch up the B1 send on channel B3. If you want your mic audio to go to OBS then punch up the B1 send on channel A1. It's a mixing board to mix and route audio. Use it just like you would a real, physical mixing board.
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Sun May 23, 2021 2:22 pm

Hi Scott,

no problem :-)

Again, are you now successfully getting mic audio into Thetis for transmission and Thetis receiver audio out to your Focusrite speakers/headphones? If not we need to fix this FIRST.


Yes, I get TX and RX Audio with ASIO, for now it sounds good, no glitches or jitter:
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You are right, the most of my questions is not Thetis related ;-)

With that fresh VMP config, I managed now nearly all my goals :-)

The reason for the endless Feedback: I had still connected the lineout on FocusRite to my Hardware-Mixer.
So all output to Focusrite was routed to the mixer and then back ... :shock: :? :oops:

The mixer is still in place, but next steps:
1) remove the Hardware-Mixer and connecting my external rack direct to Focusrite
2) remove the external rack and connecting my main-mic direct to FocusRite
3) setting up the audio with Thetis only incl. cfc



73 de Ernst
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun May 23, 2021 4:05 pm

It sounds like you are over the hump, Ernst :D
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Mon May 24, 2021 11:19 am

Ok, most of the stuff up & running.
Only one issue to solve:

Currently I have set the Focusrite to a buffersize of 192. Same in VMP. With these settings in VAC1:
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This delivers a clitch-free receive audio and also a clean tx-audio... but after a while (~30mins), the tx-audio gets distorted.
Switching from 256 in VAC1 to 2048 (and back) mostly solves the problem.

So I give a buffersize of 2048 in VAC1 a try. In the VAC1 dialog, there are no over/underflows. After approx 1h I get some over/underflows (~300), but audio (rx & tx) is still clean.

I tried also to set Focusrite to 256 and VAC1 to 256, but no way to get a clean rx-audio, even on 2048 there a some glitches.

Maybe it is the Focusrite ASIO driver, which is making troubles here...
PC is an i7-10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz, 32 GB Ram.
I have also done the registry-mods for throtteling and priority, does not have any effect on the current situation.

Any further ideas/suggestions?

73s de Ernst
OE3IDE
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Mon May 24, 2021 12:03 pm

Perhaps try selecting both the manual check boxes on "Buffer latency (ms)"
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon May 24, 2021 1:33 pm

Of all the ASIO drivers I've had experience with, and that includes Behringer, Focusrite, Steinberg, and Presonus, the Focurite drivers have always been the most problematic.

I think it's going to be a witch hunt for you to find the settings that work best.

There are rules of thumb for this, but sometimes there are exceptions. You might be the exception.

Also understand that whenever you make any change to the Thetis VAC settings it completely resets the VAC interface. So when you are making changes you are never immediately certain if it was the change that fixed the problem or the fact that you reset the interface. If you change something and then change it back and everything keeps working then that's a good indication it was the reset and not the change.

Back to those rules of thumb for ASIO:

1. Buffer size settings should match that of the driver. Don't be afraid to try different settings.

2. PortAudio In and Out should be set to manual and 0ms.

3. Set the RingBuffer In and Out to manual, start at 0, work your way up in increments of 10ms until you get something that sounds good, then fine tune from there for lowest latency.

Finally, occasional under and over flows are no big deal if you can't hear them. A steady stream of them is bad and will almost always be accompanied by bad audio.
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby oe3ide » Wed May 26, 2021 3:11 pm

Update:
Ok, now here is a brandnew PreSonus Studio 24c on the start.

Presonus/VMP on buffersize 256, VAC1 on buffersize 256.. all working so far :-)
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby w-u-2-o » Wed May 26, 2021 4:12 pm

Presonus for the win! :D

As I mentioned previously, those Focusrite drivers are not the best.

My Presonus Studio 192 allows me to run 48KHz with a buffer size of 64.

Your website is fabulous, by the way.
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Re: ASIO not working

Postby kc2rgw » Thu May 27, 2021 10:26 am

I went from a Scarlett 3rd gen 8i6 to a Motu M2 and the Motu drivers are far better behaved and more stable. I also have a very old M-Audio Fast Track that was better than the Scarlett as well.

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