ASIO Driver Not Working

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ron4094
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ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby ron4094 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:04 pm

I am trying to lower the VAC latency for use with Reaper and VM Potato with my Anan but the only driver that works is MME. The approx. latency using MME is around 115ms for VM Potato which is accepatble to me but then another 600ms through the VAC input of the Anan which is way too long. My understanding is that an ASIO driver will provide the lowest latency but I can't seem to get any driver other than MME to work. My equipment is the following:

Anan 7000 dle mk2 using Thetis V2.8.11 and Protocol 2 Firmware
OS: Window 7 Ultimate, SP1, 4G memory, 32 bit OS, build 7601.24356
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 at 2.67GHz, 4 core not hyper-threaded
VAC Sample Rate: 48k, buffer 256

The choice of drivers in the VAC dropdown of the Anan are MME which works but with high latency, Windows Direct Sound, ASIO, Windows WDM-ks and HPSDR(usb/udp) which I haven't tried. VM Potato lists Virtual ASIO Type as Float 32 or Intel32LSB, both of which I tried. If I select ASIO on the Anan, I also have the choice of ASIO4ALL (which I installed) from VM Output but it also doesn't communicate with the radio. I can't seem to get any driver other than MME to communicate between VM Potato and the Anan. I have also tried reducing the size of buffers with no apparent change in speed or the ability to connect with other drivers. My mic is connected to one of the virtual audio inputs of VM Potato and it works perfectly. Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ron
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w-u-2-o
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:09 pm

Do you have an ASIO sound interface or ASIO capable sound card? If not, then it is not worth using ASIO.

WDM-KS should work and should provide less latency.

I can't imagine how your are seeing 600ms of latency under ANY conditions with ANY driver.
ron4094
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby ron4094 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:27 pm

I just tried the WDM-ks driver and it didn't work. I now see my mic in the drop-down list as an input to VAC but even that doesn't work so I switched back to WDM and it once again works with huge latency. I suspect that I'm doing something wrong. The 600ms latency is real. I have to actually wait for a period of time before I release the transmit button or I cut off my audio. I tried counting fast from 1 to 10 over the air at which time I would release the transmit button. The other operators only heard me get to 8 when I stopped transmitting. I measured the latency using my Cool Edit recorder. On one channel I recorded the output of Reaper from VM and on the other channel I recorded the transmit output of the Anan. I measured slightly over 600ms difference between the two channels. There has to be a reason for the long latency. By the way, the receive latency out of VAC is almost instant as compared to the analog output of the radio though I didn't measure the time difference.

Ron
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w-u-2-o
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:53 pm

Again: do you have an ASIO sound interface or not? If not you are wasting your time. If you do you need to get Voicemeeter working by itself, first. Further discussion of Reaper is not helpful until the above conditions are satisfied.

If you don't have an ASIO device you still need to get Voicemeeter sorted first.

All devices you are using need to be set to 48KHz.
ron4094
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby ron4094 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:13 am

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I don't have an ASIO sound device. However, I just spoke with an Anan operator, VA3ZW who is using VAC with the MME driver and he has very little latency so I don't think I really need an ASIO driver. He is not using the VM interface but instead is using VB Audio Cables. I'll look into that this weekend. I have used them in the past to connect to Bobsmeter. Obviously, I'm not that familiar with using virtual audio cables and am still learning. By the way I'm just looking to reduce the latency to a reasonable level so that I don't cut myself off. I don't need to minimize it to some very low level.

Ron
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby w-u-2-o » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:48 am

Again, again, you should be able to keep it well under 100ms in Voicemeeter.

Are you using a boatload of plug-ins in Reaper? That'll slow things down.

You don't really need a DAW with all the processing available in Thetis.
ron4094
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby ron4094 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:46 pm

The issue is not Reaper where I'm only using 2 plug-ins. The delay through Reaper is 115ms which I know is more than it should be but the major delay is from Voicemeeter to the Rf output of the Anan where the delay is around 600ms. Could it be that my computer is the issue? I don't know. Something is very wrong since the Reaper delay is slower that it should be and the Anan transmit output delay is very slow. I just don't know enough about this subject. I understand that there is a group on 3.660 on Saturday mornings who are very familiar with this. I'll try to get in touch with them for help.

Ron
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:43 pm

I can tell you that WDM-KS is not far behind ASIO. Since I am forced to use WDM-KS on VAC2 for RX2 (only one instance of ASIO is allowed in Thetis), when I sync both receivers on the same signal and listen to both RX1 and RX2 at the same time, I only hear the very slightest reverb. I'm thinking the difference has to be less than 50ms (by ear, I have not measured it).

I have measured the following path: Mic > ASIO interface > ASIO drivers > Voicemeeter > Reaper (using Voicemeeter ASIO Insert virtual device) > Voicemeeter > Thetis > Antenna. With ALL processing turned off in Thetis (no leveler, no CFC, no nothing), the answer is between 30 and 40ms (it wobbulates around due to buffering effects). This is with all buffer sizes fully optimized (made as small as I can make them without experiencing audio glitches).

Once you start adding in the leveler and all the other goodies, you will find latency grows quickly.

I'm assuming you are measuring latency by using a two channel oscilloscope, with one channel triggering on the mic output and the other channel showing the output of an RF coupler or detector. If you are not doing it that way then you can't make an accurate measurement. If you are performing such a measurement, I'd recommend you start with just Voicemeeter and all processing in Thetis turned off (and use WDM-KS). Then start turning things on one one by one and adding in other processing one thing at a time.

With the leveler, EQ's and CFC turned on in Thetis, assuming you've got everything else optimized, 100-200ms latency is about what you'd expect.
ron4094
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby ron4094 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:19 pm

I got around the VAC latency issue by directing the output of Voicemeeter to my outboard Delta 44 sound card and connecting its analog output to the mic input of the Anan. There was no change in sound quality and the latency is now around 200ms which is acceptable to me.

Thanks for your inputs.

Ron
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:01 pm

ron4094 wrote:I got around the VAC latency issue by directing the output of Voicemeeter to my outboard Delta 44 sound card and connecting its analog output to the mic input of the Anan. There was no change in sound quality and the latency is now around 200ms which is acceptable to me.
It's too bad that you gave up and went analog on this.

What are you using Reaper/Voicemeeter for that isn't already done for you in Thetis? Why use Voicemeeter at all if you've thrown in the towel with VAC?
ron4094
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Re: ASIO Driver Not Working

Postby ron4094 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:47 pm

I should have answered this from the beginning. You are right in that Thetis provides lots of flexibility with audio and my radio sounds great with it.
However, I do like to experiment and have talked with several operators who used Reaper to provide a very small amount of reverb to their audio which I liked. Almost everyone with the exception of several AM purists like the way I sound with the tiny amount of reverb that Reaper is providing. However, the latency is somewhat annoying in that I have to delay letting go of the transmit switch. Anyway, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to reply to my posts.

Ron
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