Phase Rotator plug-ins?

USB headsets to digital audio workstation software...
jj2013
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:35 am

Phase Rotator plug-ins?

Postby jj2013 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:50 pm

All,

I liked the Phase Rotator on the Aphex 230 Master Voice Channel ("strip") to deal with asymmetry in human voice. Yes, I realize that making the wave-form more "symmetrical" may not really increase "average speech power" but I would still want to play with Phase Rotators that are software based as I have been using digital audio processing (I use the 64 bit version of Live Professor 2 which is a VST Host, USB/Audio Interface and PC) for many years. There might be a way to place the hardware unit (Aphex 230) in my digital processing chain, but I would rather not mess with that.

Does anyone know of a (64 bit) VST Plug-in that would enable (minimizing "asymmetry") Phase Rotation?

Cheers,
Juha
- NI2M

P.S. I believe you can do this inside ANAN, but my query relates to a non ANAN platform.
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W1AEX
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Re: Phase Rotator plug-ins?

Postby W1AEX » Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:27 pm

Juha,

The CFC Audio Tools built into PSDR mRX PS and Thetis has an excellent phase rotator. It does a fine job of removing asymmetry in your voice to allow maximizing your average power output.

73, Rob W1AEX

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"One thing I am certain of is that there is too much certainty in the world."
jj2013
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:35 am

Re: Phase Rotator plug-ins?

Postby jj2013 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:38 pm

Hi Rob,

I appreciate your feedback.

Now, I hear that when one uses phase rotators you might lose some of the "definition" of your audio. What that means (or doesn't) in the ham radio world may be another conversation.

Juha
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W1AEX
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Re: Phase Rotator plug-ins?

Postby W1AEX » Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:52 am

LOL, yes I have heard similar comments with a lot of different elements of voice processing. I think if too much of anything is applied the natural sound of a person's voice is lost. There is no question that over-emphasis of certain areas of the voice range with the EQ can make things unpleasant and muddy. Certainly too much compression can remove the dynamic range of a voice. The phase rotation is a little more subtle and I doubt that anyone would be able to tell if you switched it in and out during a QSO, unless they were watching the signal closely with a scope. I only use phase rotation with SSB because it gives me some nerdy satisfaction knowing that asymmetry is not going to be stealing a fraction of the potential for driving things a little harder with an asymmetrical peak pushing things into compression.

With this stuff It's mostly the fun of tinkering that makes me want to do it.

73, Rob W1AEX
"One thing I am certain of is that there is too much certainty in the world."
jj2013
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:35 am

Re: Phase Rotator plug-ins?

Postby jj2013 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:04 pm

Rob,

I couldn't agree with you more. To me, ham radio is very much about "tinkering" and learning new things.

Compression:
With split-band compressors (very tricky and one can easily mangle the audio and sound unnatural) I have been able to create a "signature sound" that emphasizes some elements in my natural speaking voice. Dynamics are an inherent part of one's persona and I know some folks are using Limiters, but when it is overdone it makes voices sound "boring," IMHO.

Mics themselves compress (and EQ) voice as well and besides that it is the electronics path that creates a "timbre" that goes way beyond merely a frequency response curve. To me, when mics of different physical topologies have a very similar frequency response curve does not suggest at all that they SOUND the same. Oh well, this too may be "irrelevant" and can't be heard. However, I prefer my Condense Mics over other types as the timbre is different.

Add Psycho-acoustics into this "tinkering equation" and it becomes obvious that getting audio to sound "good" is really very much an ART rather than merely techniques and technology. And, then there is the question of your signal strength! Should one not have a really strong signal of S-9/+20 or better (assuming that the receiving station has a "flat" RX that is opened up wide enough) some of the audio processing will be entirely lost on the listener and you will sound pretty bad with articulation that is missing and/or low-end that obliterates your articulation. :lol:

Cheers,
Juha
jj2013
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:35 am

Re: Phase Rotator plug-ins?

Postby jj2013 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:49 pm

W1AEX wrote:LOL, yes I have heard similar comments with a lot of different elements of voice processing. I think if too much of anything is applied the natural sound of a person's voice is lost. There is no question that over-emphasis of certain areas of the voice range with the EQ can make things unpleasant and muddy. Certainly too much compression can remove the dynamic range of a voice. The phase rotation is a little more subtle and I doubt that anyone would be able to tell if you switched it in and out during a QSO, unless they were watching the signal closely with a scope. I only use phase rotation with SSB because it gives me some nerdy satisfaction knowing that asymmetry is not going to be stealing a fraction of the potential for driving things a little harder with an asymmetrical peak pushing things into compression.

With this stuff It's mostly the fun of tinkering that makes me want to do it.

73, Rob W1AEX


Rob,
I also play with "Tape Machines" and have observed (and, heard, when I am in the dummy and listening to my outgoing transmission on an external "flat" receiver) the difference adding "Tape" makes. In addition to the added harmonics, and "saturation," I can hear the Dynamic EQ effect on my audio. It is somewhat subtle, but is audible when I am on a "clean" FET Condenser mic in particular. "Tape" brings that little bit of "analog" into my all-digital Audio Chain.
Cheers,
Juha

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