Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

USB headsets to digital audio workstation software...
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby N2XD » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:49 pm

What are the vac 1 settings when using Voicemeeter Potato?


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Tony EI7BMB
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby Tony EI7BMB » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:45 am

I use ASIO for driver and "Voicemeeter Virtual ASIO" for input and output
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby N2XD » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:06 pm

Tony,
Thanks for the information. That did the trick.

John N2XD
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby cLicari » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:21 pm

Somebody needs to tell me why running VAC is better then analog audio. I have none of the issues I read about with VAC and I think my audio is fine. I have no latency issues when using RX1 and RX2 simultaneously. No additional load on my system (which is more then capable). I'm not being a smart ass, I just don't know what is better about it. Someone please enlighten me, I just might switch to it.
Thx,
Carl
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:12 am

If you want the lowest possible latency, then a well-tuned VAC approach using a fast, ASIO capable sound interface will go about 10 or 20ms faster than the audio hardware built into the ANAN unit. Not a huge difference, but attractive to some.

If you want to use fully balanced, professional microphones that require 48VDC phantom power and that sort of thing, it is easier and better to interface them to a ASIO capable sound interface that is purpose built to do that. Same for powered studio monitors. Not everyone wants to do that either.

The best reason to use VAC is if your entire station is located somewhere else in your house, such as a rack in the basement like it is at my house, and you want to operate from the comfort of your office, studio, bedroom, etc.
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby oe3ide » Sat May 09, 2020 5:56 pm

Hey guys,
I add my post to this thread, because its going about Voicemeeter Potato (VMP)...hope this is correct.
I need some help, to understand some of the VMP basics. Because some of you using VMP (and before Banana), I hope I can get some clarification :-)

Ok, the goal (like Scott suggested) to make all audio-routing (and some processing) via VMP. For the first step, I don't include the digi-mode stuff, only voice.
What I have:
  • Focusrite Scarlett Solo (ok, drivers not the best, but good enough for testing)
  • Heil PR781 (for testing), Headphones
  • VMP, latest version
  • Mixcraft 9 pro studio
  • Windows default sound device: Playback: Voicemeeter input, Record: Voicemeeter output

What already works:
  • get audio from pc (i.e. from youtube)
  • get audio from my FT-2000 USB-audio-device (SCU17) .. mapped to Hardware Input 3 => works (just for testing, will not be there in the future)
  • send audio from mic (Hardware Input 1: WDM: Focusrite USB) to A1 (Hardware Out: Focusrite USB ASIO) ... so monitoring myself works
  • send audio from mic to B3 (VAIO 3)
  • get audio in Mixcraft (and process it):
    mixcraft.jpg
    mixcraft.jpg (109.96 KiB) Viewed 413 times
  • send audio from B3 (processed audio) to i.e. Hardware Input 4:Line 4 (virtual cable)
  • recording processed audio ie. via Audacity (source Line4) works, also monitoring the processed audio (Hardware Input 4 > A1) works
    (unfortunatly Audacity doesn't support ASIO out-of-the-box (have to be compiled... maybe I will do it sometime)

What does not work (or better: I am doing the wrong things):
  • I tried to record (as a simulation, what openHPSDR gets from VAIO3) with Wavosaur. Input VAIO3.
    => here I get the unprocessed audio, coming from Hardware Input 1 (mic)....but of course I want here the processed audio
    If I "map" VAIO3 to A1, i can monitor also only the unprocessed audio...
    Line out on Focusrite also delivers unprocessed audio (direct monitor=off)

I guess, I have to use the patching (in the system settings). I have read the VMB manual, after that the VMP manual, and also Scott's "ASIO - DAW - openHPSDR" article, but I could not get behind the logic of: "PATCH ASIO Inputs to Strips", "PATCH BUS TO A1 ASIO OUTPUTS", "PATCH COMPOSITE" and "PATCH INSERT".

vmp.jpg
vmp.jpg (458.61 KiB) Viewed 413 times


Maybe someone can explain, how this routing inside VMP works.

I much appreciate any explanations :-)

73s de Ernst
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby w-u-2-o » Sat May 09, 2020 7:37 pm

The "patch insert" is a mechanism by which you can send audio to and receive it back from another application, most typically a DAW (digital audio workstation) application. In the DAW you would assign as the device the Voicemeeter Potato Insert ASIO Virtual Device. This patch can be pre or post fader, depending on the settings in VMP.

In your case you are not doing this so you do not need to activate any of the patch inserts.

Also, hardware input 1 should ideally be ASIO Focusrite, not WDM.

Beyond that you are well outside the scope of amateur radio and might get better answers at https://forum.vb-audio.com/

And I thought I had a complex setup! ;)

More typically you would do this: put PowerSDR VAC1 on VMP virtual channel 1, VAC2 on virtual channel 2, digi software on virtual channel 3, and an ASIO interface (like the Focusrite) on hardware input 1 and hardware output 2. Then mix/route as desired.

The next level up from that would be to use VMP only as a glorified patch panel for a more complex DAW. In that case you would enable the patch inserts for all of the relevant channels in VMP. Then in the DAW you would specify the Voicemeeter Potato Insert ASIO Virtual Device and start assigning channels as appropriate to receive and send audio from/to VMP.

I may be writing ancient Greek to you, however. While the lexicon is easily understandable by studio engineers it may not be familiar to someone new to audio mixing and routing. And, I have to say, the available Youtube tutorials on Voicemeeter are typically awful and the manual not that great beyond the basics.

It might be easier if you described exactly what you want to do, rather than the problems you are having in doing it.
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby oe3ide » Sat May 09, 2020 8:39 pm

Good evening Scott,

thanks for your explanation.

1) youtube-tutorials, manual => you're 100% right :-)

2) for whatever reason, I have no Focusrite ASIO on the hardware input list (only mme, wdm, ks).. have to investigate that...

3) I want to "send" the mic-audio to my DAW-Application (Mixcraft, but only as example), process the audio and "send" it to openHPSDR, ALL with ASIO. VMP should act as THE audio-centre of the pc (like atm my Yamaha hardware mixer).
In my case I would prefer to use Voicemeeter AUX (virtual input 2) or Voicemeeter VAIO 3 (virtual input 3).
Voicemeeter VAIO (virtual input 1) should be the main audio from the pc.
For the moment I am only interested in the phone-part... step by step :)
And for simplification, only VAC1.

More typically you would do this: put PowerSDR VAC1 on VMP virtual channel 1, VAC2 on virtual channel 2, digi software on virtual channel 3, and an ASIO interface (like the Focusrite) on hardware input 1 and hardware output 2. Then mix/route as desired.

I assume that: VMP virtual channel 1 = "Voicemeeter VAIO", 2 = "Voicemeeter AUX" and 3 = "VAIO 3"...
..hmm and where goes your "normal" PC-Audio?

For me the labeling of the virtual drivers is vy confusing :?
thetis.jpg
thetis.jpg (230.26 KiB) Viewed 401 times


tnx & 73s
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby oe3ide » Sat May 09, 2020 9:35 pm

Or more simple:

Mic (Focusrite ASIO *) => DAW-App => openHPSDR VAC1
or
Hardware input 1 => virtual output 3 (B3) => DAW-App => openHPSDR VAC1

*) still checking, why ASIO is not selectable
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby oe3ide » Sun May 10, 2020 1:24 pm

Ok, I guess I figured it out. I send Mic to B3 (VMP VAIO 3) and set VAIO3 as sound-device in Mixcraft. If I send virtual input 3 (VAIO 3) to A1, I can monitor the processed audio :-)
Using VAIO3 in openHPSDR should then receive the processed audio from DAW-app.

Focusrite: use ASIO as input:
1) deselect the WDM Focusrite USB on hardware input 1
2) patch focusrite asio input strips 1 + 2 in the system-settings to hardware input 1:
vmp_focusrite_asio_input.jpg
vmp_focusrite_asio_input.jpg (451.79 KiB) Viewed 375 times

This makes a huge difference on the delay.

The only thing, which does not work (or I make it wrong) is to monitor mic-input via B3 (without using a DAW-app).
1) I send the mic-input to A1 => monitoring works
2) Send mic-input to B3, adjusting 6-band-eq, send B3 to A1 => monitoring does not work (but maybe this is not possible)

In a first step, the plan is, to use only the openHPSDR processing (pre-eq, cfc, ..), without DAW-app. In this case it would be nice, to make a basic eq-adjustment via B3 and monitor the result, before it goes to openHPSDR...
(will place this in the vb-audio forum)
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby w-u-2-o » Sun May 10, 2020 1:49 pm

Sorry for the delay in responding, but this response required me to sit down at a real keyboard for more than 30 seconds, something I haven't had the chance to do until this morning.
Mic (Focusrite ASIO *) => DAW-App => openHPSDR VAC1
The "proper" way to do this is as follows:

1. Assign HW input 1 to Focusrite ASIO (mic inputs 1 and 2).
2. In VMP System Settings, enable the patch inserts for In1L and In1R.
3. In your DAW, select the hardware device Voicemeeter Insert ASIO Driver.
4. In your DAW, assign input channels 1 and 2 of the Voicemeeter Insert ASIO Driver as appropriate for processing in your DAW.

If these were "real" mixing consoles this would be the equivalent of plugging a patch cord into a pre-fader "send" on channels 1 and 2 of the VMP "mixing board" and patching it over to another "mixing board" (your DAW).

At this point you should be able to see input from your microphone in your DAW, where you can process and route it to your heart's content inside the DAW.

Now you need to get the results of the DAW back into VMP for further routing. Since this is the equivalent of a hardware studio pre-fader "send"...

5. Assign the results of your DAW processing to output on channels 1 and 2 of the Voicemeeter Insert ASIO Driver device.

The results will arrive back into VMP HW input 1 on the L and R channels before the VMP HW input 1 fader. You can then further process or route them as required.

6. Assign PowerSDR VAC1 to use one of the three VMP virtual channels, for instance the first one, Voicemeeter Virtual ASIO (yes, they have such terrible names, it is easy to be confused).
7. Activate the correct route button on HW input 1. Again, in my example, that would be B1.

This is actually how I used to have my audio set up. I used VMP as a glorified patch panel. There is no other way to connect multiple ASIO devices together (in this case PowerSDR, the DAW, and the actual sound interface hardware). I used no processing in VMP and I left all levels in VMP at 0dB. All of the VMP channels were "patch inserted" into the Reaper DAW, where I did a ton of processing on all of the audio.

Nowadays, with the really fabulous audio processing tools in PowerSDR (and even better in Thetis), I don't need to do any processing in a DAW.
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby oe3ide » Mon May 11, 2020 2:18 pm

Hi Scott,

thanks again for your excellent explanation. The PRE-Fader patching <=> "Voicemeeter Insert ASIO Driver", that was the missing link :-)
In my case I had to use "Voicemeeter Potato Insert ASIO".

I tried this already before, but in Mixcraft 9 I got an error ("Unable to open the playback device")
"Voicemeeter Potato Insert ASIO" works fine on Ableton and Reaper :-)

73 de Ernst
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby w-u-2-o » Mon May 11, 2020 3:22 pm

Glad you got it working!

Yes, the naming in VMP is atrocious!

Reaper is quite a wonderful tool considering what it costs. I've also personally seen the VMP Insert driver work in Pro Tools, Studio One, Ardour and in Audiomulch. Of all of those tools I much prefer Reaper. You can do a bit more in Pro Tools but it costs so much in both money and CPU. Reaper is nicely lightweight on both counts. The Audiomulch patch flowchart schema is very cool, but it's just not as good as Reaper in a lot of ways. Don't care for Studio One even though I have a license for it compliments of my purchase of a Presonus interface. Nor for Ardour. Both of the latter two I find less intuitive for live mixing than the others.
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby W9KB » Thu May 14, 2020 5:41 pm

I have just dusted off my old ANAN-100 and updated it to latest firmware and Thetis program.

For more fun, I downloaded VMP and their digital audio cables. Everything looks and plays together reasonably well, but I can not “see” the ASIO cables on the radio side. They are loaded and available to select in WSJT-X, but on the radio side... all that seems available are my original virtual audio cables from previous setup and and cables for VAIO, VAIO-AUX, and VAIO3.

What would you suggest to open up my radio’s vision?

73
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby w-u-2-o » Thu May 14, 2020 6:34 pm

Ken,

Your post isn't making sense to me. WSJT-X does not support ASIO. Therefore it cannot "see" any ASIO drivers.

Are you saying that when you select ASIO as the driver in Thetis there are no devices available to assign?

Finally, and I'm not sure this is relevant, but when you install any new software from VB Audio you must uninstall the old VB Audio software, reboot, install, and reboot. This is right in all of the VB Audio user guides.

73,

Scott
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby W9KB » Fri May 15, 2020 10:48 am

w-u-2-o wrote:Ken,

Your post isn't making sense to me. WSJT-X does not support ASIO. Therefore it cannot "see" any ASIO drivers.

I just checked and they are selectable options in WSJT... since the radio did not 'see' them, I can not verify if they actually work.

Are you saying that when you select ASIO as the driver in Thetis there are no devices available to assign?

Yes, just double checked after I made the assignments in WSJT.

Finally, and I'm not sure this is relevant, but when you install any new software from VB Audio you must uninstall the old VB Audio software, reboot, install, and reboot. This is right in all of the VB Audio user guides.

This might be the key... I checked and did not find the ASIO selections in VMP. I had MME, WDM, and KS options available, but no ASIO.

Thanks for your reply

73,

Scott
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Re: Voicemeeter Potato (VMP) is here!

Postby oe3ide » Fri May 15, 2020 1:07 pm

I just checked and they are selectable options in WSJT... since the radio did not 'see' them, I can not verify if they actually work.

Which version of wsjt-x are you running. Here on 2.1.2. 0068f9 there are no ASIO drivers selectable in the audio-menu.
Don't be confused about the naming, there are listed some VAIO drivers, but they are not ASIO ;-)

This might be the key... I checked and did not find the ASIO selections in VMP. I had MME, WDM, and KS options available, but no ASIO.

I had the same problem with my focusrite. They are not visible in the hardware-input dropdown.
For me, this procedure does the job:
1) de-select the audio-device on hw-input 1
2) go to "Menu / System-settings" and patch Asio ch1 & ch2 to the input strips:
focusrite asio input.jpg
focusrite asio input.jpg (38.17 KiB) Viewed 229 times


73s de Ernst
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